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Little bit of help

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Little bit of help

Postby Kisshu » Fri 10.14.2005 11:34 pm

I have 2 a questions...

First, when should I use じ or ぢ and ず or づ. Sorry if this seems kinda stupid to ask.. but I was thinking about this the other day... and I can't quite figure it out.....

And, my other question would be.....

I noticed that Clay spells "good luck" Gambatte instead of がんばって on his Hiragana and Katakana pages. I asked someone about this and they thought that it was probably just Clay's special way of spelling it, and that it was correct to spell it がんばって. I just figured that is what it must have been. Until I bought the book "Kanji De Manga" earlier today. At the end of the introduction, they spelled it ganbatte as well! Am I missing something?! I can't figure this out because there isn't even the letter "m" by itself in hiragana!!!!!

I am gonna post this on the shoutbox too since there aren't any members online at the moment....;)
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RE: Little bit of help

Postby Infidel » Sat 10.15.2005 12:07 am

when should I use じ or ぢ and ず or づ.


These are often used to diffrentiate homonyms when writing in kana. In general use じ or ず or つ. As you learn new words pay attention to what characters are used. This is the only way to learn them.

I asked someone about this and they thought that it was probably just Clay's special way of spelling it, and that it was correct to spell it がんばって.


There are about 4 big romanization methods for Japanese , Kunrei and Hepburn are the most popular, and especially Hepbun for English speakers. But no one uses proper Hepburn, everyone uses a modified form, and everyone modifies it different. There are about 3 "standard" Hepburn mods and using 'm' before m, b, and p is a standard mod.

People who favor Hebpurn usually favor it because it is closer to the pronounciation. These people modify Hepburn to make it even closer to the pronounciation, Another standard Hepburn mod is to type the "ei" construct as "ee" because it is closer to the pronounciation, such as sensee instead of sensei.

I usually use Hepburn 'm' + double vowel mod. Double vowel is another standard mod where double vowels are just typed twice or in hiragana style. Macrons and circumflexs are too much of a pain to type and most mods drop these first thing.

All of these different romanization methods and mods within each system are only half of the reason that students are encouraged to put romanization behind as soon as possible. It just confuses too many people.
Last edited by Infidel on Sat 10.15.2005 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Little bit of help

Postby Kisshu » Sat 10.15.2005 12:41 am

Whoah!!! NO kidding... confuzzling.... i should kick romanization to the curb.... actually I have learned all my hiragana..... but i have only learned a couple lines of katakana... stupid school.. but i'll prolly finish the rest in the next week... idk.. id rather stick with the spelling to that i am not confused 24/7 -________-
Last edited by Kisshu on Sat 10.15.2005 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Little bit of help

Postby skrhgh3b » Sat 10.15.2005 1:49 am

i recently read that the ministry of education, in its reforms of the language, replaced ぢ with じ and ず with づ in all instances because most japanese themselves couldn't distinguish between the two sounds, so you'll probably never see a legitimate word spelled in modern japanese with ぢ or づ.
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RE: Little bit of help

Postby nprz » Sat 10.15.2005 2:12 am

Well, tell that to my computer. when I type はなじ and hope to come up with 鼻血 it doesn't seem to know what to do, so I just go with はなぢ because that is how I learned it ;)
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RE: Little bit of help

Postby skrhgh3b » Sat 10.15.2005 3:09 am

[url]Well, tell that to my computer.[/url]

what's your ip address? ;)
♪夢も見たくない 幸せなんか要らない
恋もしたくない お金なんか要らない
ぼくに必要な眠りを眠らせておくれ♪
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RE: Little bit of help

Postby InsanityRanch » Sat 10.15.2005 8:07 am

nprz wrote:
Well, tell that to my computer. when I type はなじ and hope to come up with 鼻血 it doesn't seem to know what to do, so I just go with はなぢ because that is how I learned it ;)


Exactly! <g>

The thing is, 血 is pronounced "chi", not "shi". So when the consonant is voiced because of what's in front of it, it becomes はなぢ, not はなじ.

A similar case is suffixes such as 付け (づけ) and 付き (づき), which are not written with ず.

It's not a question of distinguishing the sounds. It's a question of preserving the syntactic units of a word by retaining the spelling.

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RE: Little bit of help

Postby Mukade » Sat 10.15.2005 8:49 am

Although there is no difference in pronunciation between じ and ぢ, there is one between ず and づ.

Tokyo dialect has pretty much replaced the づ pronunciation with ず, but there are still dialects that use づ.
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RE: Little bit of help

Postby Infidel » Sat 10.15.2005 10:33 am

づ etc, are used all the time in legitimate words but not for their sound. They are 当て字 used for some words that sound the same.

つづく - to be continued
つつく - to poke

the same reason we spell "eye" different than "aye"
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