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About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

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About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby b4d0m3n » Mon 10.31.2005 10:47 pm

So far I'm getting this, it's making sense. The 'i' adjectives are cool and make sense, but how would I distinguish '-na' adjectives? I mean, seriously, other than learning them in context? Basically, it makes sense to me that 'samui' is an 'i' adjective, but not that 'kirei' is a '-na' adjective. Is there any way to actually tell this?
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby Kates » Mon 10.31.2005 10:54 pm

Not really. You really just have to know. However, MOST -i-adjectives end in one or two い, while -na-adjectives tend to end in anything BUT い. But as you said, kirei is an exception (and there are more, I'm sure... I just can't think right now.)
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby InsanityRanch » Mon 10.31.2005 11:01 pm

b4d0m3n wrote:
So far I'm getting this, it's making sense. The 'i' adjectives are cool and make sense, but how would I distinguish '-na' adjectives? I mean, seriously, other than learning them in context? Basically, it makes sense to me that 'samui' is an 'i' adjective, but not that 'kirei' is a '-na' adjective. Is there any way to actually tell this?


Yes...and no. <g>

You can't tell in romaji, and you can't even tell in hiragana-only texts. So if you haven't learned any kanji yet, the following isn't too useful. However:

If you see Japanese written normally, with kanji, -i adjectives generally consist of a kanji plus either -i or -shii (or inflected endings) written in kana. For instance, "samui" is written 寒い, and "muzukashii" (difficult) is written 難しい.

-Na adjectives are more often written either with two kanji like "kirei" (奇麗) and "kantan" (簡単) or with a single kanji plus one or more kana ending in か, as in "shizuka" (静か) or "yawaraka" (柔らか).

Incidentally, if someone can explain to me the difference between these two types of -na adjectives, I'd appreciate finding out the word history.

As with everything in Japanese, there are exceptions, and here the main one is that sometimes adjectives of both types are simply written in hiragana with no kanji at all.

Fortunately, I think the number of common -na adjectives that end in -i or -shii is very small. I don't have a list, though. Maybe someone else here does?

HTH!

Shira

Shira

Shira
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby nprz » Mon 10.31.2005 11:42 pm

柔らか looks like a contraction from 柔らかい, similarly 小さな 小さい, 大きな 大きい
I don't know about 静か though.

I don't know any -shii ending na-adj, but could probably generate a list of い ending na-adj in a bit.

Also, some (fake) adjectives might end with い and have a kanji, such as 嫌い. Don't be fooled for this are う ending verbs that have been transformed into adjectives.

I'll add the list in a while if I can.
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby InsanityRanch » Tue 11.01.2005 12:00 am

That's a good point about v5 verbs ending in -u turning into nouns ending in -i. However, while they are not adjectives, strictly speaking, they may act like -na adjectives. For instance, my dictionary gives the following reibun for 嫌い:

おおいう男性はわたしの嫌いなタイプなの

It's colloquial and informal, so I'm not sure if it is technically correct. But clearly "kirai na" is in reasonably common use.
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby nprz » Tue 11.01.2005 12:11 am

おっちょこちょい
ずる賢い
ぞんざい
みたい
不似合い
不揃い
不釣り合い
不釣合い
互い違い
場違い
大嫌い
大笑い
大食い
大食らい
小ぎれい
小憎らしい
幸い
憖い
持って来い
格好いい
格好のいい
格好の悪い
格好よい
格好悪い
桁違い
段違い
注意深い
狡賢い
筋違い
見当違い
負けず嫌い
足手まとい
足手纏い
足手纒い
食べず嫌い

You will notice all the endings of 嫌い、違い、合い. These are all from verbs. If you eliminate them, there are very few, 幸い and 憖い.
If you learn the kanji, you won't get confused about which is na-adj and which is i-adj.

-edit-
Rather than spam the list of i ending na-adj that are based from kanji, you can view it here
http://www.cs.sonoma.edu/~prziboro/EpicTimes/list.txt. It is in Unicode 16-bit UTF-16.
Last edited by nprz on Tue 11.01.2005 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby InsanityRanch » Tue 11.01.2005 1:15 am

Thanks for these lists. I've saved them for future flashcards
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby nprz » Tue 11.01.2005 1:26 am

If you want the English meaning as well, I can attach that.
My point was there are few na-adj which end in i that wasn't either 1) a verb 2) is part of a kanji.
I'm also wondering about whether the WWWJDIC is wrong on some, such as かっこういい is probably an i-adj
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RE: About 'i' and '-na' adjectives...

Postby InsanityRanch » Tue 11.01.2005 2:01 am

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, I think ずる賢い should be an -i adj too. And the others that end in いい, よい, 悪い or 深い.

I'll do a lookup in the kokugo tomorrow, ok?

Shira
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