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what the heck?

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what the heck?

Postby spank » Mon 12.12.2005 6:06 am

firstly, how do i express disgust in japanese?
嫌だ!!
secondly, i'm confused.

i was looking at these two kanji: 考 写
simple enough right? okay, tell me one thing.
why is the fifth stroke of the first kanji slighly downwards and left, and the third stroke of the second kanji slightly upwards and right? aren't they basically the same radical?

shouldn't this be the same stroke direction? correct me if i'm wrong.

doubters will pay.
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~ssatoru/nakama/kanji/202-05/kou394D.mov
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~ssatoru/nakama/kanji/201-02/sha3C4C.mov

did anyone know this difference, let alone care about it?
:o
Last edited by spank on Mon 12.12.2005 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: what the heck?

Postby AJBryant » Mon 12.12.2005 11:15 am

firstly, how do i express disgust in japanese?
嫌だ!!


Just like in English, it depends. What *kind* of disgust? ("Kirai da" really has no disgust attached to it.)

Response to bad-tasting food?

Response to a really gory movie?

Response to someone acting like an ass?

Response to a politician you hate saying something stupid?

Response to a team you can't stand defeating your beloved (XYZ) for the championship?

Finding out your sweetheart has a thing for... well, the BAD kinky stuff?

shouldn't this be the same stroke direction? correct me if i'm wrong.


Well, they may look similar, but they're not the same thing -- and that stroke order kinda seals it. ;) But, yeah, you'd probably expect that the order would be the same

Tony
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RE: what the heck?

Postby spank » Mon 12.12.2005 4:20 pm

嫌だ = いやだ i think.

I was going for the response to "revolting graphic violence", because I just saw this movie Junk Food.

Are there any other kanji characters that have this discrepancy between stroke direction that you know of?

Thanks;)
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RE: what the heck?

Postby Harisenbon » Mon 12.12.2005 8:25 pm

AJBryant wrote:
firstly, how do i express disgust in japanese?
嫌だ!!


Just like in English, it depends. What *kind* of disgust? ("Kirai da" really has no disgust attached to it.)


Actually, that's いやだ. It has a fairly general air of disgust to it, I think. You can use it with pretty much anything.

Food.
この寿司はまだ生きてる!嫌だ!
People
彼はいつも授業でおならしてる!嫌だ!

etc.
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RE: what the heck?

Postby AJBryant » Mon 12.12.2005 11:41 pm

Damn, I need better glasses. Sigh...

But, yeah, I think 'yada' works for just about anything. (Why do I always hear that in my head squeeled by a loud falsetto voiced joshikosei?)

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RE: stroke direction

Postby coco » Tue 12.13.2005 9:29 pm

spank wrote:
shouldn't this be the same stroke direction? correct me if i'm wrong.

先ず、次の サイトを ご覧 下さい。
http://kanjialive.lib.uchicago.edu/main.php?page=using&lang=en
そして 「千(セン)」と 「干(カン)」を 調べてみて 下さい。

「考」や「写」 よりも ずっと かんたんな 漢字ですよね。
けれども 第一画目の 方向は 逆 に なります。
なぜなの でしょうか。
もし 『永字八法(えいじはっぽう) 』 を知れば、この疑問が 解決 するかも しれません。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_order
http://soli.inav.net/~ceicher/pages/calligraphy.html
2番目のサイトを作った人には驚嘆しました。
ここに 説明 されている ように、『永』という文字には 8種類の 筆遣い(『運筆』とも言われています)が 含まれて います。
ですから 「永」の文字を 練習することで、基礎的な筆遣い、線の方向などを 学ぶことが できるのです。
ご質問にあった
「考」の 5画目は 「掠 (または啄)」 で、
「写」の 3画目は 「勒」 で 告ャされて います。
これは ちょうど 「千」と 「干」 の 違いと 同様です。

一般には「掠/ 啄」を「左はらい」 と 呼び、
「勒」 は 横画(よこかく) もしくは 横棒(よこぼう) など と 呼ばれます。
(参考サイト↓)
http://ten.tokyo-shoseki.co.jp/north-so ... uhitsu.htm

そして 二つの 漢字の 部首は 同じでは ありません。
Radical of 写 is “crown” 冖 (わかんむり)
Radical of 考 is “old" 耂 (おいかんむり)
http://meiko.web.infoseek.co.jp/
↑this site will be your help.
TOP→ 部首(ぶしゅ=radical)のなりたち→ click the radicals in black screen.

漢字を 習うにあたって さまざまな 疑問が生じる と思います が、
その疑問の いくつかに 答えて くれそう な サイトを 紹介しましょう。
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/afaq/kanji.html

The site “Kanji stroke orders” gives some hints to write kanjis, a URL is in the njt’s great post.
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1161
njtさんの 素晴らしい 投稿の中にも 「漢字の書き順」という 役に立つ サイト などが
紹介されています ので、併せて ご覧 に なると よい と思います。

ところで、12月12日は 日本漢字迫ヘ検定協会 に よって 制定された「漢字の日」です。
2005年の 『今年の漢字』 には 「愛」 が 選ばれました。
http://www.rikunabi2007.com/RN/cgi-bin/KDBG00900.cgi?KOKYAKU_ID=0025980001&MAGIC=&SEDAI_CD=07&ALBUM_NO=7
去年は 「災」 という 漢字が 選ばれて います。
Last edited by coco on Thu 12.15.2005 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: what the heck?

Postby lomagu » Wed 12.14.2005 7:23 am

wow, that's really interesting! I didn't post the question, but I want to thank Coco for all the info. ありがとうございました!:D
The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.☆-D.Adams
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