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shikata nai KA

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shikata nai KA

Postby sampaguita » Sun 02.26.2006 6:46 am

I've been seeing and hearing this expression for a while. I know what "shikata ga nai" means, but what does "ka" do to the original meaning of the phrase?

I've also been hearing other expressions with "-nai ka" at the end. What is the purpose of "ka" in these sentences? Is it an ordinary question marker?

Thanks!
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RE: shikata nai KA

Postby keatonatron » Sun 02.26.2006 7:32 am

sampaguita wrote:
Is it an ordinary question marker?


...Yes.

sampaguita wrote:
I've also been hearing other expressions with "-nai ka" at the end.


Consider:

Don't you want to go?
Haven't you heard?
Isn't he at home?
Won't you help me out?
Last edited by keatonatron on Sun 02.26.2006 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: shikata nai KA

Postby coco » Sun 02.26.2006 8:10 pm

I know what "shikata ga nai" means, but what does "ka" do to the original meaning of the phrase?

In the phrase of しかたないか…, ending か is not question maker.
Generally, it's has a tone of "convince oneself "(?).
I hope someone will give you better explanation.
(Sorry I can not explain all in English.)

しかたないか… の「か」は疑問の「か」ではありません。
通常は、自分自身を納得させる意味合いで使います。
「ま、しかたないか」などと使います。
「しょうがないか」も同様です。
------
「しかたない」を疑問文にする場合、かなり複雑な状況ですから
「それは『しかたない』という意味ですか?」
「しかたない、と思っているの?」
「しかたないって何なのよ」
のような質問の仕方が一般的です。
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RE: shikata nai KA

Postby richvh » Sun 02.26.2006 8:43 pm

So it's more "I suppose it can't be helped" than "Can't it be helped?"
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RE: shikata nai KA

Postby coco » Sun 02.26.2006 10:03 pm

Rrichさん。ありがとうございます。
「仕方ないか」が『英辞郎』にありました。
---------From ALC----------
仕方ない。=oh well 〔〈用法〉気を取り直して〕 //cop it sweet〈豪俗〉
仕方ない。=I guess I have no choice.
仕方ない。 =I guess we'll just have to grin and bear it.
それじゃ仕方ない。/しょうがない。=You couldn't help it.◆相手の謝罪や弁解に対して。
まあ仕方ない。 =They are what they are
仕方ない。=These things just happen.
それは仕方ない。/それはどうしようもない=It can't be helped.
*豪俗=Australian slang
-----------------
「ま、いっ」も『英辞郎』で見ていただけると分かり易いかもしれません。
こちらも I guess とかOh, well が使われているようです。
「しかたない」 の「か」 も 同じ用法です(疑問文ではないという点で)。
「しかたないか」は Well, I have no choice. あたりなのかもしれませんが
実際のところ私には英語の Well の使い方がどのようなニュアンスを
持つのか、よく分かりません。
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RE: shikata nai KA

Postby AJBryant » Sun 02.26.2006 10:07 pm

So it's more "I suppose it can't be helped" than "Can't it be helped?"



No. It's exactly the same as English "It can't be helped" and "It can't be helped, can it?" Essentially, they say the same thing -- the difference is that the question indicates a seeking of someone's agreement.

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RE: shikata nai KA

Postby keatonatron » Mon 02.27.2006 7:31 am

Like when you say, "I guess it can't be helped, huh." That "huh" implies a question, but no answer is expected.
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