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Gerund question

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Gerund question

Postby crowfeather » Fri 03.17.2006 12:57 am

If I remember my English grammar, a gerund is a noun functioning as a verb . To form a gerund I just add "ing"
i.e. snow ( noun) snowing ( verb)

What is the Japanese grammatical term for turning a noun into a verb and how do I apply it?

For example "yuki ( means snow and it is a noun) How do I turn it into the verb "snowing"?
I have a book in verbs and it doesn't address this.

I can do a search for the information if I know the Japanese grammatical term for it.
Thanks,
Barbara
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RE: Gerund question

Postby keatonatron » Fri 03.17.2006 1:27 am

You've got it backwards. A gerund is a verb acting as a noun.

"Snow" in this sentence is a verb (as in "Will it snow tomorrow?") However, weather is a bad example because no one really knows what "it" is, so instead look at the sentence "I like running". Run is a verb, and using it in this form makes it act as a noun (this sentence is structured the same as "I like cheese").

To do this in Japanese, you simply add "koto" after the verb:

ke-ki wo taberu (I eat cake)
ke-ki wo taberu koto ga tanoshii (eating cake is fun)

There is no way to make a noun into a verb--verbs are action words, and nouns are not. It is impossible for a non-action word to do an action.

To answer your other question, to say "it is snowing": yuki ga futteimasu (literally, "snow is falling").
Last edited by keatonatron on Fri 03.17.2006 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Gerund question

Postby crowfeather » Fri 03.17.2006 1:43 am

Keatonatron,
Thank you!! It has been quite a while since I studied Englsih grammar :(

So if I understand you correctly then to say it is raining, it would be :
Ame ga futteimasu. ( rain is falling)

Watashi wa yomu koto ga ai ( I love reading)
Is this correct?

Thanks!
Barbara




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RE: Gerund question

Postby AJBryant » Fri 03.17.2006 11:43 am

Watashi wa yomu koto ga ai ( I love reading)
Is this correct?


Close. Replace "ai" with "suki (desu)."

The prob with "ai" is that (1) it's a noun, not a verb, and (2) it's way too strong to say with that sentence unless you are really peculiar with that reading devotion. ;)

Tony
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RE: Gerund question

Postby crowfeather » Fri 03.17.2006 1:46 pm

Thanks Tony,
I use index cards and make "plug and play" sentence patterns to help me learn complete sentences.
Now I can use this sentence pattern to form several sentences just by changing one word. I like swimming, reading, walking, etc.

Thanks again
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RE: Gerund question

Postby AJBryant » Sat 03.18.2006 1:07 am

No charge. :)


Tony
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RE: Gerund question

Postby Oracle » Sat 03.18.2006 9:48 am

keatonatron wrote:
There is no way to make a noun into a verb--verbs are action words, and nouns are not. It is impossible for a non-action word to do an action.


This is probably not quite the same thing, but for a limited number of nouns 化 (ka) can be added to turn them into a verb:

example: あのテレビ番組は映画化されることになりました。
ano terebi bangumi wa eigaka sareru koto ni narimashita.

"That TV program is going to be made into a movie."
Last edited by Oracle on Sat 03.18.2006 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Gerund question

Postby keatonatron » Sat 03.18.2006 10:10 am

I don't quite follow what you mean. The verb form of "movie" would have to be "to movie". However, 映画化する means "make into a movie". I guess I could see someone saying "we're going to movie this book!" but...

Since you said "limited number of nouns," wouldn't those actually be established verbs that just happen to follow a pattern of being nouns + 化?

It's kind of like saying "Take the noun 'book', and add 'to' to the front.. now you've turned it into a verb, 'to book'! " However, "to book" is already an established verb, and you can't do the same thing to, say, "hat".

Right? (I guess what I mean to say is, you're right, it's not quite the same thing :D And I think looking at it like you're creating verbs out of nouns makes it a bit confusing....)
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RE: Gerund question

Postby Oracle » Sat 03.18.2006 11:34 am

keatonatron wrote:
I don't quite follow what you mean. The verb form of "movie" would have to be "to movie". However, 映画化する means "make into a movie". I guess I could see someone saying "we're going to movie this book!" but...

Just trying to start some healthy debate ;)

Of course, if you turn it back into English you'd never translate it as "let's movie this book" but noun+化 is a fairly productive form in Japanese and it could be used with any noun you like but it's only understood commonly in certain patterns.

Since you said "limited number of nouns," wouldn't those actually be established verbs that just happen to follow a pattern of being nouns + 化?

It's kind of like saying "Take the noun 'book', and add 'to' to the front.. now you've turned it into a verb, 'to book'! " However, "to book" is already an established verb, and you can't do the same thing to, say, "hat".

Right? (I guess what I mean to say is, you're right, it's not quite the same thing :D And I think looking at it like you're creating verbs out of nouns makes it a bit confusing....)

I think - in Japanese and English - you can turn any noun into a verb but whether it's actually understandable by others is another issue. For example, I had a Japanese friend who used/invented マックる ("to McDonalds" -> "to go to McDonalds") It was used among about 5 friends.. Or how about slang verbs like 事故る?
I'm just rambling now :D
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RE: Gerund question

Postby ShounenSuki » Sat 03.18.2006 11:44 am

keatonatron wrote:
I don't quite follow what you mean. The verb form of "movie" would have to be "to movie". However, 映画化する means "make into a movie". I guess I could see someone saying "we're going to movie this book!" but...

Since you said "limited number of nouns," wouldn't those actually be established verbs that just happen to follow a pattern of being nouns + 化?

It's kind of like saying "Take the noun 'book', and add 'to' to the front.. now you've turned it into a verb, 'to book'! " However, "to book" is already an established verb, and you can't do the same thing to, say, "hat".

Right? (I guess what I mean to say is, you're right, it's not quite the same thing :D And I think looking at it like you're creating verbs out of nouns makes it a bit confusing....)
If I'm not mistaken, 化 is a suffix that means something like "turning into...". So 映画化 would be "turning into a movie," just as 電化 means "turning into electricity," "electrification". ALl you have to do then is put する behind it and you have a verb.
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RE: Gerund question

Postby AJBryant » Sat 03.18.2006 11:45 am

This is probably not quite the same thing, but for a limited number of nouns 化 (ka) can be added to turn them into a verb:


This is both grammatically and logically impossible.

One noun is being converted into another noun.

To use your own example, 映画 is "movie." 映画化 is not "make a movie" but "cinematization." It's a NOUN.

It doesn't become a verb until you attach suru, which is the REAL verb here; structurally, it's still a nount. 映画化する Means "do a cinematicization" or "turn something into a movie." (Note it doesn't mean "make a movie" -- it means to convert something [like a novel] into a film.)

Tony
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RE: Gerund question

Postby Oracle » Sat 03.18.2006 10:39 pm

AJBryant wrote:
This is probably not quite the same thing, but for a limited number of nouns 化 (ka) can be added to turn them into a verb:


This is both grammatically and logically impossible.

One noun is being converted into another noun.

To use your own example, 映画 is "movie." 映画化 is not "make a movie" but "cinematization." It's a NOUN.

It doesn't become a verb until you attach suru, which is the REAL verb here; structurally, it's still a nount. 映画化する Means "do a cinematicization" or "turn something into a movie." (Note it doesn't mean "make a movie" -- it means to convert something [like a novel] into a film.)

Tony


That's cool. I was thinking along different lines - I accept I'm wrong.

So back to the movie example, I could genuinely make a verb out of a noun with something like 映画する and it would mean "to movie" - whatever that means! :)

And as I posted previously does 事故る (jikoru = to have an accident) count as a noun being turned into a verb?
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RE: Gerund question

Postby AJBryant » Sat 03.18.2006 11:28 pm

So back to the movie example, I could genuinely make a verb out of a noun with something like 映画する and it would mean "to movie" - whatever that means!


I'll try to respond as soon as I've picked up all the pieces from my exploded brain. ;)

While technically correct (i.e., "suru" is the "verb maker" for nouns) not all nouns take "suru" to define the action. For example, 散歩 is "walk/constitutional", and 散歩する is "to go for a walk. While 映画 is "movie," 映画する is meaningless. Without actually hitting the dictionaries, I think that the only nouns that can "be verbed" with suru are nouns that describe some kind of action anyway -- e.g, "a walk", "dining", "tennis", etc. -- and the "suru" gives the meaning of DOING the action described by the noun.

Nouns like "radio," "movie," and "airplane" don't have a natural action -- movies can be made, watched, rented, etc.; radios can be built, bought, broken, sold, listened to, etc.; airplanes can take off, crash, be flown, be ridden, be booked, be painted, etc.-- so one needs a specific verb to work with those nouns.

Tony
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RE: Gerund question

Postby Harisenbon » Mon 03.20.2006 2:31 am

I'm suddenly reminded of that Calvin and Hobbes strip where Calvin realizes that you can verb words.

"Isn't that totally plasmic? It's lubricated! Well, I'm phasing!"
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RE: Gerund question

Postby keatonatron » Mon 03.20.2006 3:34 am

You know, people do make verbs out of nouns every so often. However I doubt it's gramatically correct, and it's often based off of inside jokes or something.

In high school my friends made up a term for getting whacked between the legs (usually from behind) with any type of long object. We called it "goosing".

"Oh man, that skateboarder just goosed himself on that railing!"

And if we ever found ourselves in the position of attacking someone in such a manner, we would declare the attack by shouting "Goose!" right before making contact with the poor soul's backside.

I'm not sure where the term originated. Maybe someone got nipped in the butt by a real goose and decided to pass along the experience.
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