View topic - 外人?
外人?
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RE: 外人?
by battousai » Sat 06.24.2006 6:03 pm
Although everyone is looking at it from the 'slang' connotation, I just wanted to point out the obvious - someone not knowing the word "gaijin" in Japan is like someone not knowing the word "foreigner" in America. So how many people do you know in America that don't know the word "foreigner"? I think that is the point trying to be made.
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RE: 外人?
by coco » Sat 06.24.2006 6:16 pm
Keatonatron-san 別スレッドでの的確な誘導ありがとう。
Paulさんのリンクが役立ちそうだったのでこっちに移動しておきます。
Paulさんのリンクが役立ちそうだったのでこっちに移動しておきます。
paul_b wrote: Posted on 24-06-2006 07:56Ongakuka wrote:
外国人 is more polite.
外人 is more casual.
That's pretty much all there is to it.
Except that gaijin tends to be used for people that are obviously visibly foreign. (To be blunt, black or white).
See link for reference.
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RE: 外人?
by keatonatron » Sat 06.24.2006 10:46 pm
Budomaru wrote:
btw, i never really understood why asians are considered yellow. ... i've seen brownish asians and white (well, skin-white) asians.
They might look that way by themselves, but if you were to compare them side-by-side to a caucasian, you can tell the base pigment is a different tone (i.e. yellow). If my girlfriend and I hold our arms side-by-side, it's really easy to see the difference.
The "white" and "brown" asians are just lighter and darker versions of the yellow pigment
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RE: 外人?
by mule98j » Tue 03.20.2007 12:45 pm
Please excuse my generalizations. I'm not a sociologist or a linguist, so I don't claim any expertise.
A point was made in this thread that it's a custom in Japan to refer to people by something other than their name. This is a fundamental conceptualization process, not just a semantic quirk. Americans are the opposite. We prefer to be called by our names, and feel that categorization is somehow demeaning.
In Japan: Mr. Section Boss.
In America: Mr. Smith.
I don't suppose Mr. Shimoda would object to being called Shimodasan by his employees. He probably wouldn't object to being called kachou san, or kachou sama. But an American section boss would probably feel insulted if he were called Mr. Section Boss.
Languages evolve, but paradigms give way much more slowly. You have only to examine Japanese (so-called) pronouns in the most cursory way to realize that the application of names in Japan is a lot different that the way we do it in America.
Americans don't like to be labeled. We want to believe we live in a classless society. We are not reasonable about this--in that respect we aren't different from any other culture. We have good intentions, but can't seem to be consistent. We won't use the word nigger because it makes people uncomfortable. At the same time we still think that foreigners are just Americans who can't speak English.
We realize that some Japanese don't like white people. But we can't tell the difference between a good intention and a slur: gaijin. Outsider. No way to get around it. So, back to my original volley: The Japanese don't use pronouns the way we do. This is a fundamental conceptualization process, not a character flaw. I understand that most Japanese didn't even use family names until well into the declining years of the Tokugawa Era. They called themselves after their districts, villages, or occupations. This was not a measure of their worth as individuals, but an indicator of how they saw themselves fitting into their society.
Foreigners are destined to clash with this. We take things in the context we know:
Hey, White man.
Hey, Mr. Whiteman.
Hey, Foreigner.
The problems are manifold. These are labels that rankle us. We are trained to not think this way. The problem is that usually we don't realize that not all people share our paradigm. The problem is that our arrogance is that we want them to do things our way.
The problem is that even when we get it, that a Japanese is being polite, it still means outsider.
A point was made in this thread that it's a custom in Japan to refer to people by something other than their name. This is a fundamental conceptualization process, not just a semantic quirk. Americans are the opposite. We prefer to be called by our names, and feel that categorization is somehow demeaning.
In Japan: Mr. Section Boss.
In America: Mr. Smith.
I don't suppose Mr. Shimoda would object to being called Shimodasan by his employees. He probably wouldn't object to being called kachou san, or kachou sama. But an American section boss would probably feel insulted if he were called Mr. Section Boss.
Languages evolve, but paradigms give way much more slowly. You have only to examine Japanese (so-called) pronouns in the most cursory way to realize that the application of names in Japan is a lot different that the way we do it in America.
Americans don't like to be labeled. We want to believe we live in a classless society. We are not reasonable about this--in that respect we aren't different from any other culture. We have good intentions, but can't seem to be consistent. We won't use the word nigger because it makes people uncomfortable. At the same time we still think that foreigners are just Americans who can't speak English.
We realize that some Japanese don't like white people. But we can't tell the difference between a good intention and a slur: gaijin. Outsider. No way to get around it. So, back to my original volley: The Japanese don't use pronouns the way we do. This is a fundamental conceptualization process, not a character flaw. I understand that most Japanese didn't even use family names until well into the declining years of the Tokugawa Era. They called themselves after their districts, villages, or occupations. This was not a measure of their worth as individuals, but an indicator of how they saw themselves fitting into their society.
Foreigners are destined to clash with this. We take things in the context we know:
Hey, White man.
Hey, Mr. Whiteman.
Hey, Foreigner.
The problems are manifold. These are labels that rankle us. We are trained to not think this way. The problem is that usually we don't realize that not all people share our paradigm. The problem is that our arrogance is that we want them to do things our way.
The problem is that even when we get it, that a Japanese is being polite, it still means outsider.
Last edited by mule98j on Tue 03.20.2007 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
騾
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RE: 外人?
by keatonatron » Tue 03.20.2007 1:27 pm
AJBryant wrote:
Resurrecting a nine-month old thread.
The original post was the conception, and this the birth, of Mule's thought.
Now if only everyone would take the normal incubation period of a human to compose their thoughts, this forum would be a much more refined, intelligent place :p
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RE: 外人?
by Yudan Taiteki » Tue 03.20.2007 5:02 pm
i think it means new trunk line at least thats what the kanji meaning. but i just started jp so maybe im wrong 
-Chris Kern
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RE: 外人?
by Infidel » Tue 03.20.2007 5:22 pm
Yudan Taiteki wrote:
i think it means new trunk line at least thats what the kanji meaning. but i just started jp so maybe im wrong
Hrm, so it's a leash for a baby elephant. Thanks A lot!
Jap is soo cool. It's like playing with Lego's again!
Last edited by Infidel on Tue 03.20.2007 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
さっぱりわからん。
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Infidel - Posts: 3088
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RE: 外人?
by Yudan Taiteki » Tue 03.20.2007 6:30 pm
i didnt want to make a new thread but i saw in anime someone says MISITE YARRO what does it mean. i tried to translate it but i cant know meaning
-Chris Kern
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