Differences between some endings

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ai_ya
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Differences between some endings

Post by ai_ya » Tue 05.23.2006 7:55 am

Are there any differences in the nuance of meaning between, say:

ご飯を食べたあと(で)、すぐ勉強しました
ご飯を食べたら、すぐ勉強しました
ご飯を食べてから、すぐ勉強しました

They all seem to mean 'I studied right after I had eaten my meal' or something similar. Are there any differences which should be noted, or is it just up to preference which one to use?

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Mukade
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RE: Differences between some endings

Post by Mukade » Tue 05.23.2006 10:08 am

First, you can't say 食べたら、勉強した。
The 〜たら、〜した form can only express uncontrollable events. Since studying is a volitional act, it cannot follow 〜たら in the past tense.

× 食べたら、勉強した
○ 食べたら、吐いた

As far as the 〜あと vs. 〜てから goes, I think 〜あと is more general in its sense. 〜てから seems to have more of a sense of structure/order. Especially if you take out the すぐ, I think the sense would be:

食べた後、勉強した - (at some point) after eating, I studied
食べてから、勉強した - (right) after eating, I studied

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Oyaji
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RE: Differences between some endings

Post by Oyaji » Tue 05.23.2006 11:29 am

ai_ya - I see you still are not sure about the use of 〜tara in past tense. As you can see from Mukade's response, you're understanding, as you explained it in the other thread, was correct. That is what I meant to say in my last response in that thread (after I finally figured out what you were asking - the misunderstanding more my fault than yours). Does this help, or are you still unsure?


As to the difference between あと and から: As Mukade said, あと simply means at some point after, as opposed to before or during. On the other hand, から means "from" and technically that's what it means in this case as well. "I ate, and from that point I studied."

coco
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RE: 〜たら form 

Post by coco » Tue 05.23.2006 3:37 pm

Have you read all of your own thread?
Use of たら form.
They kindly tried to teach you.

ai_ya
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RE: Differences between some endings

Post by ai_ya » Tue 05.23.2006 4:39 pm

Yes, thanks for all your help. I was mostly concerned with the difference between -te kara and ato in this thread (I included -tara 'just incase'), but I now know the difference between all three now thanks to you all. :) Much appreciated.

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Harisenbon
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RE: Differences between some endings

Post by Harisenbon » Tue 05.23.2006 7:54 pm

First, you can't say 食べたら、勉強した。
The 〜たら、〜した form can only express uncontrollable events. Since studying is a volitional act, it cannot follow 〜たら in the past tense.
While 食べたら勉強した. sounds wierd, does たら have to be followed by uncontrollable events? I often hear 「食べたら行こう?」 or other similar phrases.

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zengargoyle
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RE: Differences between some endings

Post by zengargoyle » Tue 05.23.2006 8:33 pm

Harisenbon wrote:
While 食べたら勉強した. sounds wierd, does たら have to be followed by uncontrollable events? I often hear 「食べたら行こう?」 or other similar phrases.
i also have issues with the 'uncontrollable' part... not authoritative, but the Kodansha Handbook of Japanese Verbs doesn't quite stick to the 'uncontrollable' part.

〜たら - "if" -- expresses a conditional.

時間あったら遊びに来てください。
If there's time, please come to visit me.
もう少し痩せたらこのスカートがはける。
If I lose a little more weight, I can wear this skirt.

〜たら - "when", "after" -- indicates that the action or event in the subordinate clause takes place before the action or event in the main clause.

駅に着いたら電車が出たところでした。
When I arrived at the station, (I found that) the train had just left.
六時を過ぎたらうちへ帰らなければならない。
When it's six o'clock, I must go home.

〜たら - "Why not ~", "How about ~" -- expresses a suggestion or proposal in casual conversation.

このケーキを二つに切ったら。
How about cutting this cake in two?

other examples seen...

いい男見つけたら報告しろよ。
If you find a good man, be sure to let me know.
今帰ったらおやじにしかられます。
If i went home now, my old man would give me hell.
こんな仕事やらせたらすぐやめちゃうよ。
If I made them do this kind of work, they'd quit right away.


so, what sort of 'uncontrollable' are we talking about here? i'm not sure i understand...

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Oyaji
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RE: Differences between some endings

Post by Oyaji » Wed 05.24.2006 11:23 am

Harisenbon and zengargoyle - You seem to have missed a key part in Mukade's post: "in the past tense."

The only example of past tense in your posts is the one about the train having left. In that case, the train's leaving was not controlled by the speaker.

You cannot use たら to say "I did A, and then I did B." You can use it to say "When I did A, B happened." B being something not of the speaker's volition.

Does that clear things up? :)
Last edited by Oyaji on Wed 05.24.2006 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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