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nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

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nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby kappa » Sun 06.18.2006 12:21 pm

I know that wa (or ha) is the topic marker and ga is the subject particle.
In this sentence:
nattou wa oishii - natto is delicious
does the wa indicate that nattou is the topic at hand?
Also, would the sentence:
nattou ga oishii
also be acceptable in showing that nattou is the subject?

Also, if a watashi wa was added would it still be:
watashi wa nattou wa oishii
or would it be:
watashi wa nattou ga oishii?
I thnk that the ga sounds wrong but I dont know! Please help!

Please feel free to correct my Japanese! :D

Thank you! :)
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby paul_b » Sun 06.18.2006 12:38 pm

kappa wrote:
I know that wa (or ha) is the topic marker and ga is the subject particle.
In this sentence:
nattou wa oishii - natto is delicious
does the wa indicate that nattou is the topic at hand?[/color]

Yes, although that's not the only possible nuance.

For example there's contrast.

nattou wa oishii ga toufu wa oishikunai.

Also, would the sentence:
nattou ga oishii
also be acceptable in showing that nattou is the subject?

Sure. That's what "subject particle" means. :-P

Also, if a watashi wa was added would it still be:
watashi wa nattou wa oishii
or would it be:
watashi wa nattou ga oishii?
I thnk that the ga sounds wrong but I dont know! Please help!

Hmm, both sentences are a bit imaichi (wishy-washy). If I may venture a different example sentence.

東京はホテル代が高い。 touykyou wa hoterudai ga takai.
東京はホテル代は高い。 touykyou wa hoterudai wa takai.
Both mean "Hotel fees are expensive in Tokyo" but the second one
implies
"Hotel fees are expensive in Tokyo (but other costs are not that expensive)"
In other words the contrastive nature of wa.

However it gets complicated and it's been quite a while since I studied up on it.
Last edited by paul_b on Sun 06.18.2006 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby AJBryant » Sun 06.18.2006 12:47 pm

Actually it occurs to me that the most obvious problem here is the faulty nature of the original statement. Natto is *not* oishii.

:)

Tony
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby richvh » Sun 06.18.2006 12:48 pm

kappa wrote:
I know that wa (or ha) is the topic marker and ga is the subject particle.
In this sentence:
nattou wa oishii - natto is delicious
does the wa indicate that nattou is the topic at hand?
Also, would the sentence:
nattou ga oishii
also be acceptable in showing that nattou is the subject?

They have different nuances, if I understand correctly.
「納豆(なっとう)はどう?」「納豆(なっとう)はおいしい」
How's the nattou? The nattou is delicious.
「何(なに)がおいしい?」「納豆がおいしい」
What's delicious? Nattou is delicious.

Also, if a watashi wa was added would it still be:
watashi wa nattou wa oishii
or would it be:
watashi wa nattou ga oishii?
I thnk that the ga sounds wrong but I dont know! Please help!

Please feel free to correct my Japanese! :D

Thank you! :)

I believe the proper way is
私(わたし)には納豆(なっとう)がおいしい
but omitting the ni is acceptable:
私(わたし)は納豆(なっとう)がおいしい
Only one topic per sentence, so wa/wa isn't correct.
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby paul_b » Sun 06.18.2006 12:54 pm

richvh wrote:
They have different nuances, if I understand correctly.
「納豆(なっとう)はどう?」「納豆(なっとう)はおいしい」
How's the nattou? The nattou is delicious.
「何(なに)がおいしい?」「納豆がおいしい」
What's delicious? Nattou is delicious.

That's not so much different nuance (although that is a factor) as one of agreement of particles between question and answer.

Only one topic per sentence, so wa/wa isn't correct.

You can have more than one wa per sentence, you can even have more than one ga per sentence (although two subject particles with the same verb are pretty rare).

Incidentally I've just dug out my copy of 「は」と「が」 ... not that I finished reading it the first time. :-P

[edit]Overstated things a little[/edit]
Last edited by paul_b on Sun 06.18.2006 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby Sapphiregirl » Sun 06.18.2006 1:17 pm

Check out:
http://www.timwerx.net/language/particles.htm

There are examples implementing wa vs ga. I hope it helps.
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby paul_b » Sun 06.18.2006 2:26 pm


Works better with [url] tags.

There are examples implementing wa vs ga. I hope it helps.


It's a bit low on technical accuracy - Tony probably wouldn't approve.
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby kappa » Sun 06.18.2006 3:38 pm

Thank you everyone! :D
Please feel free to correct my Japanese! :D
Thank you!

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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby keatonatron » Mon 06.19.2006 3:00 am

Another use of は is to show natural properties of objects. Like:

りんごは落ちる.

"Apples fall" - This means, no matter what apple you're talking about or where it is in the world, it will respond to gravity.
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby Oyaji » Mon 06.19.2006 4:05 am

Another episode of "My Three Sons".

If I shout up the stairs「買い物に行く人」(Kaimono ni iku hito) "Who wants to go shopping?" The following would be among the possible scenarios:


Son A: 僕は行く。 (Boku wa iku) Implying "I don't know about the other two, but I'm going."
Son B: 僕も行く。 (Boku mo iku) "I'm going too."
Son C: 僕は行かない。 (Boku wa ikanai) "I'm not going." (Regardless of the other two.)


Son A: 僕が行く。 (Boku ga iku) "I'M going." (The implication is that for whatever reason only one of them can go.)
Son B: いや、僕が行く 。(Iya, boku ga iku." "No, I"M going."
Son C 僕はいかない。 (Boku wa ikanai) (Same as above) He would not say 僕が行かない (boku ga ikanai) in this case because that would only be used if the question were "Who is NOT going."

ハ (Reality)
Son A: 行く (Iku) "I'm going."
Son B: 行く (Iku) "I'm going."
Son C: 行く (Iku) "I'm going."
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby becks23 » Mon 06.19.2006 4:23 am

AJBryant wrote:
Actually it occurs to me that the most obvious problem here is the faulty nature of the original statement. Natto is *not* oishii.

:)

Tony


Soooooo true...I can't even stand the smell of it.
"Beckham has done it again at Old Trafford!!"
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby keatonatron » Mon 06.19.2006 6:04 am

Oyaji,
How did you come up with labelling your examples イ,ロ, and ハ? I've seen lots of ア,イ, and オ but...
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby paul_b » Mon 06.19.2006 6:08 am

keatonatron wrote:
Oyaji,
How did you come up with labelling your examples イ,ロ, and ハ? I've seen lots of ア,イ, and オ but...

You've never heard of Iroha ?

It's not so common now but it was often used for ordering things (entries in dictionaries, people's names on 下駄箱, etc. etc.)
Last edited by paul_b on Mon 06.19.2006 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby keatonatron » Mon 06.19.2006 7:09 am

Yes, I had heard of it but I didn't have it memorized and I had never seen it used before :p
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RE: nattou wa oishii - wa and ga problems!!!

Postby kappa » Mon 06.19.2006 8:18 am

AJBryant wrote:
Actually it occurs to me that the most obvious problem here is the faulty nature of the original statement. Natto is *not* oishii.

:)

Tony


I have never tried nattou, I want to see how it tastes and smells. but Im sure you'll all assure me it is gross! :D

I only used this as an example from the grammar pages. It's not my fault! ;)
Last edited by kappa on Mon 06.19.2006 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Please feel free to correct my Japanese! :D
Thank you!

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