Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - つとめる

つとめる

Have a Question about some Grammar point? Share it with the world!

つとめる

Postby tanuki » Tue 10.03.2006 3:54 pm

Hello, people!

I was checking a grammar list for the JLPT level 4 and I found this entry: 「〜につとめています 」, and I'm not totally sure about this grammar point so I decided to ask.
(The question has more to do with grammar than with the JLPT so I've decided to put it in the grammar section.)

First of all, I noticed that this つとめる can use several kanji: 努める, 勤める, 務める. In the JLPT vocabulary list it's listed as 勤める, so I guess that's the kanji to use in this case.

When I look up 勤める it gives me several meanings, so I decided to look up [url=www2.alc.co.jp/ejr/index.php?word_in=%8B%CE%82%DF%82%C4%82%A2%82%DC%82%B7&word_in2=%82%A9%82%AB%82%AD%82%AF%82%B1&word_in3=PVawEWi72JXCKoa0Je]example sentences[/url] with 勤めています in ALC. The translations show that its meaning when used in this structure (〜に勤めています) is "to work at...".

My questions are:

* How is this different to 〜で働いています?
* Is "to work at..." the only meaning of 〜に勤めています? (since 勤める has several meanings...)

Thanks in advance for your help, bye!
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。
User avatar
tanuki
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: つとめる

Postby Milmi » Tue 10.03.2006 4:11 pm

(I already know that this is not a all-covering answer but just something that I've thought on my own)

I've always thought that 勤める is expecially "to work for some one" and 働く is only "to work".
Kanjikaveri - Finnish site about Japan and Japanese
Milmi
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon 09.05.2005 11:28 am

RE: つとめる

Postby richvh » Tue 10.03.2006 4:32 pm

The vocabulary list at Meguro (which I'd trust over the one with all the edict entries) gives it as "to work for." I wouldn't worry about the kanji; none of those are JLPT-4 kanji, so they shouldn't appear on the test.

I could well be wrong, but I think the difference 〜に勤めています and 〜で働いています is the difference between "is employed by" (emphasis on the job) and "works at" (emphasis on the work).
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語
richvh
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm

RE: つとめる

Postby keatonatron » Tue 10.03.2006 7:09 pm

You guys got it.

マイクロャtトに勤めています。21St.事務所で働いています。
User avatar
keatonatron
 
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sat 02.04.2006 3:31 am
Location: Tokyo (Via Seattle)
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: つとめる

Postby chchan45 » Tue 10.03.2006 7:55 pm

tanuki,

You mentioned that つとめる can be written in more than one kanji (努める, 勤める, 務める). Yes, the dictionary is correct, although if you are preparing for JLPT L4, the chances are that you will not need to worry about it for a while.

This is according to a kanji textbook (漢検4級 漢字学習ステップ):

「努める」は「完成に努める・解決に努める」のように「努力する」意味で、「勤める」は「会社に勤める」のように「仕事に就く」意味で使います。また「務める」は「議長を務める・主役を務める」のように「役目を受け持つ、果たす」意味で使います。

So in short, use 努める if you are working towards a goal, use 勤める to say where you work, and use 務める if you are talking about your position or role.


There are many Japanese kunyomi words which are written as different kanjis depending on the context and you will come across them once you reach intermediate level. はかる is a famous example and has featured in JLPT L1.
Last edited by chchan45 on Tue 10.03.2006 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
chchan45
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed 03.01.2006 10:01 am
Location: United Kingdom

RE: つとめる

Postby tanuki » Tue 10.03.2006 9:27 pm

Thanks everyone for the answers!

@Chchan: Thanks for the extra info. I'll keep in mind that this word has many kanji possibilities with different meanings for the time I must learn those kanji.
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。
User avatar
tanuki
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: つとめる

Postby Mike Cash » Wed 10.04.2006 5:51 am

Hint: All "labor" is "work", but not all "work" is "labor".
User avatar
Mike Cash
 
Posts: 2737
Joined: Sun 08.20.2006 3:38 am
Native language: English

RE: つとめる

Postby hyperconjugated » Thu 10.05.2006 4:28 am

"The person who labors, labors for himself,
For his hungry mouth drives him on."
Irgendwann fällt jede Mauer
User avatar
hyperconjugated
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Fri 05.06.2005 5:12 pm
Location: Finland
Native language: Finnish

RE: つとめる

Postby Mike Cash » Thu 10.05.2006 10:03 am

hyperconjugated wrote:
"The person who labors, labors for himself,
For his hungry mouth drives him on."


As concise a disputation of communism as I have ever seen. Very nice.
User avatar
Mike Cash
 
Posts: 2737
Joined: Sun 08.20.2006 3:38 am
Native language: English

RE: つとめる

Postby hyperconjugated » Thu 10.05.2006 10:51 am

Mike Cash wrote:
hyperconjugated wrote:
"The person who labors, labors for himself,
For his hungry mouth drives him on."


As concise a disputation of communism as I have ever seen. Very nice.

Proverbs 16:26
食べるために働く気を起こさせるなら、ひもじさも彼に立ちます。
Irgendwann fällt jede Mauer
User avatar
hyperconjugated
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Fri 05.06.2005 5:12 pm
Location: Finland
Native language: Finnish

RE: つとめる

Postby Mike Cash » Thu 10.05.2006 11:00 am

hyperconjugated wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:
hyperconjugated wrote:
"The person who labors, labors for himself,
For his hungry mouth drives him on."


As concise a disputation of communism as I have ever seen. Very nice.

Proverbs 16:26


I am fond of Proverbs 25:24
User avatar
Mike Cash
 
Posts: 2737
Joined: Sun 08.20.2006 3:38 am
Native language: English

RE: つとめる

Postby keatonatron » Thu 10.05.2006 12:43 pm

I like the book of Ruth. Chapter 5, good stuff.
User avatar
keatonatron
 
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sat 02.04.2006 3:31 am
Location: Tokyo (Via Seattle)
Native language: English
Gender: Male


Return to Grammar Questions and Problems

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests