plain in the middle, polite in the end

[tanuki]

Hello, people!

I'm pretty positive there have been threads about this, but I couldn't find anything with the search function.

Let's suppose we are speaking in polite speech. What's the difference between putting plain forms and putting polite forms, in the middle of sentences?

For example (sorry if the sentences are clumsy):

中田さんが来なかったので、独りで食べに行きました。

vs.

中田さんが来ませんでしたので、独りで食べに行きました。

Is the difference merely stylistic? My guess is that the second one is more "literary", but it's just a guess.

Or maybe is one politer than the other? Is using plain in the middle acceptable in formal situations?

Thanks in advance for your responses. Bye!

[Yudan Taiteki]

The second sounds more polite, formal, stiff, gentle/feminine, etc. The first is more common than the second, even in polite speech.

[flammable hippo]

I thought that ので could only follow the short forms and that using it instead of から (which can go before short and long forms) automatically made the sentence polite. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[tanuki]

I think ので can follow both plain and polite forms.

Take a look at the example sentences in [url=www2.alc.co.jp/ejr/index.php?word_in=%82%CC%82%C5&word_in2=%82%A9%82%AB%82%AD%82%AF%82%B1&word_in3=PVawEWi72JXCKoa0Je]ALC[/url]. There's a fair ammount of polite + ので.

[flammable hippo]

Hhmmm...that's interesting. But I noticed that most of the examples had the short form come before node even though a few of them used the masu form. I think that might mean that masu + node isn't used too often? Except in extra formal speech? I think that might be like how the ra ending is supposed to follow the short form (tabetara, nondara, etc) but in much more polite speech can follow the long form (sumimasen, kimarimashitara, o yobi kudasai).

Sry, too lazy to use my input methoder.

[tanuki]

Wow, does that happen often? The polite + ra, I mean. Never heard of that!

[datdo]

*completely random*
When I saw the thread title I immediately thought of that oreos commercial...."squeezed in the middle/ smack dab in the middle...."
I'm glad I stopped watching tv...

[flammable hippo]

tanuki wrote:
Wow, does that happen often? The polite + ra, I mean. Never heard of that!

I'm not sure how often it happens, but I saw it used in my textbook and it says it's pretty formal so I guess you would use it when you are using other keigo forms like the o + verb stem + kudasai. My previous example was the sentence found in my book and it was said by a waiter to a customer. So most likely in some sort of business type situations you would use it. But that's just my theory.

[Yudan Taiteki]

flammable hippo wrote:
I thought that ので could only follow the short forms

Considering the original of ので that should be the case, but masu/desu forms can go before it as well just to increase politeness.

Tanuki: the masu+ra forms are about as common as masu/desu+no de/kara.

[flammable hippo]

Hhhhmmm...just out of curiousity, Since there is a polite form + ra, is there a polite form + ba such as tabemaseba or nomimaseba? or is this phenomenon restricted to the ra 'if' form?

[Yudan Taiteki]

I don't think it can be used with +ba.

masu + -te forms are possible too (i.e. 思いまして) but only to connect clauses, never with auxiliary verbs (i.e. 読みましてください is wrong).

[flammable hippo]

Thanks for the info

[Matsumoto_hideto]

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
The second sounds more polite, formal, stiff, gentle/feminine, etc. The first is more common than the second, even in polite speech.

I thought the same thing


2nd one sounded very "bookish"

[Tspoonami]

I've been told many times not to use desu or -masu forms until the end of a sentence because they are both 'sentence enders...' I am now thoroughly confused

[Matsumoto_hideto]

Tspoonami wrote:
I've been told many times not to use desu or -masu forms until the end of a sentence because they are both 'sentence enders...' I am now thoroughly confused

well it depends you can use desu in the middle but I think you would use it in some kind of conjuctive phrase.