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I have a couple of quick questions...

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I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby darknightsky » Sun 03.25.2007 11:58 am

Hey there. My 1st question is how do you say Japanese dictionary in Japanese? Would it be Nihongo no jisho, since no would be the possesive particle? Then my other question is how do you pronounce the double consanants? I have heard it several difference ways. Thanks, and good day to all.
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby saraLynne » Sun 03.25.2007 12:20 pm

darknightsky wrote:
how do you pronounce the double consanants?


This is so hard to describe in text, your BEST bet is to find audio files.

However, take the following into consideration:

say, "stuck car" and you have an approximation of "kk" as in "gakkou"
flat top - tt - 'hattori'
hip pain - pp - 'ippai'
flash shoot - ssh
bus stop - ss

The best attempt to describe it is that there is something of a pause or such that occurs between the consonants. But I still think finding audio examples will be better.

As far as your dictionary question -- 'no' isn't exactly a possessive here, it's just a particle that links two nouns. The most important noun goes last, so since you're talking about the dictionary, it is second, and 'nihongo no jishou' is correct (but I usually just say "jishou")

Take care, good luck!
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby darknightsky » Sun 03.25.2007 12:41 pm

Thank you saraLynne!!! I'll keep that in mind. I'd use audio files, but my computer doesn't have sound. Guess I'll ask my boyfriend to look it up next time I go to his house. Thanks again.
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby keatonatron » Sun 03.25.2007 12:43 pm

You can also say 英和辞書 (eiwa jisho)

英 - England (English)
和 - Japan (Japanese)
英和辞書 - English-Japanese dictionary

Of course a dictionary of Japanese words with only Japanese definitions is different.
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby flammable hippo » Sun 03.25.2007 12:48 pm

辞典 (じてん) can also be used for dictionary
Two muffins were baking in an oven. One turns to the other and says "sure is hot in here." The other replies "AH TALKING MUFFIN!"

二つのマフィンがオーブンで焼かれていた。片方のマフィンがもう一方のマフィンに向かって、"暑いね”と言った。すると、話しかけられたほうのマフィンは"アッ!喋るマフィンだ!”と驚いた。 :)
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 03.25.2007 12:55 pm

Typically these are the words used:
辞典(じてん) - dictionary, can alternate with 辞書(じしょ).
To make a Language->Language dictionary you usually use the abbreviated country names in X->Y pattern, i.e. 英和辞典(えいわじてん) is E->J dictionary, 中日辞典(ちゅうにちじてん) is Chinese->Japanese dictionary, etc.

英英辞書(えいえいじしょ) is usually the term used for an English dictionary (i.e. with English definitions of English words), but 国語辞典(こくごじてん) is the name for a Japanese dictionary (i.e. with Japanese definitions of Japanese words).

I think that 日本語の辞書 would not normally be used and would be vague unless the context made it clear what you were talking about.
-Chris Kern
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby darknightsky » Sun 03.25.2007 1:45 pm

Ok. Thank you to all the replies. It has helped me very much.
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby AJBryant » Sun 03.25.2007 2:09 pm

My 1st question is how do you say Japanese dictionary in Japanese? Would it be Nihongo no jisho, since no would be the possesive particle?


As Chris says, the only time you with find "Japanese" in the title, it will be a twin-language or dictionary. THe name will depend on what *kind* of dictionary. The term used for a Japanese dictionary in Japan is "kokugo jiten."

Tony
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby skrhgh3b » Sun 03.25.2007 6:05 pm

i get the impression that dictionary titles prefer 辞典 over 辞書, so is 辞書 more of a 'generic' word for a dictionary?
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby clay » Sun 03.25.2007 7:22 pm

skrhgh3b wrote:
i get the impression that dictionary titles prefer 辞典 over 辞書, so is 辞書 more of a 'generic' word for a dictionary?


This is just off the cuff, but...

I haven't really heard 「辞典をかして。」 (Give me a dictionary.) but always 「辞書をかして。」

Perhaps 辞典 is used more for naming but 辞書 is used in speech to refer to a 辞典?
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby keatonatron » Mon 03.26.2007 12:23 am

I've never heard 辞典, only seen it written, so that would be a good guess.
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby spin13 » Mon 03.26.2007 12:39 am

When asking a native speaking friend what the difference between 辞書, 辞典, and even 字引 thrown in for good measure, I received the following response:

字引 is just an old word for it and she was surprised that it might possibly show up on a JLPT exam. Being in her mid-thirties, she didn't feel quite old enough to justify using it herself; she said she'd just wait until she had grandkids and even then wasn't quite sure if it'd be vogue.

辞書 is your standard dictionary. Words as related to other words. 辞典 seem to overlap with 辞書 but also go far beyond in scope to cover/define specific (or general) topics, ranging from animals to people, not necessarily related to just words. An encyclopedia, if you will. In fact, when checking the dictionary at http://www.nihongoresources.com you'll find these definitions clearly differentiated. EDICT makes less of a distinction.

Who's right? I don't know. I don't use dictionaries; that'd make me look too smart.

Sincerely,
-Eric
Last edited by spin13 on Mon 03.26.2007 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby AJBryant » Mon 03.26.2007 2:00 am

Anyone else remember the term "iki jibiki"?


Tony
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby keatonatron » Mon 03.26.2007 9:00 am

There was a Chinese kid in my class who we all called "aruki jisho"
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RE: I have a couple of quick questions...

Postby two_heads_talking » Mon 03.26.2007 10:18 am

AJBryant wrote:
Anyone else remember the term "iki jibiki"?


Tony


do they still use that term? IIRC it means living dictionary right?
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