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ように

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ように

Postby m_ » Thu 04.19.2007 6:03 am

ように (exp) (1) in order to (e.g., meet goal); so that; take care (so as); (2) hoping or wishing for something; (P

I am quite confused with the usage of ように, the second part - hoping or wishing for something is fine, but for the first part, I cannot find a literal translation or connection to the meanings in some sentences.

I have across many sentences with ように which I cannot figure out, this is only 1 of them.

m-さんが9時までに事務所に来るように , と言っていました.
m-san says you should come to his office by 9pm.

please kindly explain how is the ように used. I cannot see how the ように part is translated.. tks
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RE: ように

Postby paul_b » Thu 04.19.2007 6:49 am

m_ wrote:
ように (exp) (1) in order to (e.g., meet goal); so that; take care (so as); (2) hoping or wishing for something; (P

m-さんが9時までに事務所に来るように , と言っていました.
m-san says you should come to his office by 9pm.


Mr. M said "take care that [whoever] comes to the office by 9pm".

Of course that sounds rather awkward in English which is why we get the looser translation. "you should".
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RE: ように

Postby hiwa » Thu 04.19.2007 7:21 am

ように can be roughly mapped to 'as' with its broadest range of connotation. So, your (1) and (2) have just the same functionality of the language.

m-さんが9時までに事務所に来るように , と言っていました.
M san has said as you come to office by nine o'clock. ..... some pidgin English may be ..

優勝できるように、がんばってね.
Do your best as you can win.

よう(様)== mode of things, look of things, situation of things, air of things, state of things, style of things, ..... or something like these
に == particle that marks target , destination, goal or objective of an action
So, ように is roughly equivalent to 'as'.

このことを、忘れないようにしてください.
Do as you don't forget this thing.
Last edited by hiwa on Fri 04.20.2007 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ように

Postby m_ » Thu 04.19.2007 10:56 pm

a bit clearer bit I still can't get the essence of it.. oh .. no :(
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RE: ように

Postby Oracle » Thu 04.19.2007 11:18 pm

m_ wrote:
a bit clearer bit I still can't get the essence of it.. oh .. no :(


I think Hiwa's explanation is pretty good, but if you substitute 'as' with 'so that' it becomes a lot clearer.
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RE: ように

Postby ss » Fri 04.20.2007 8:36 am

m_san wrote
a bit clearer bit I still can't get the essence of it.. oh .. no :(


This morning we touched on this topic ように and came out with some example sentences. Glad to share with you.

〜ようにする – try to ~ , make sure to ~, make an effort to do something

1) 早く寝るようにしなさい
Try to go to bed earlier.
Like mama is telling us > Try to make it a habit to sleep earlier.

2) 野菜をたくさん食べるようにしましょう
You should (better) make a habit to eat more vegetables.

3) もっと勉強するようにします。
I’m going to study (more) harder.

4) 日曜日に3級勉強をするようにしましょう。
Let's study for JLPT3 on every Sunday.

5) 納豆が食べられるようになりました。
I became able to eat Natto ( makes sense?)
我(變得)萩h(敢吃) 納豆了。

As for your question
m-さんが9時までに事務所に来るように , と言っていました.
“M-san said to be at the office before 9."
"to make an effort toward" to come to office by 9 o'clock. (like normal day).
M先生說:盡量像往常一樣在九點之前到公司 .
(從華文的角度去看,會比較清楚嗎?)


Hope it helps. ^^
Last edited by ss on Fri 04.20.2007 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ように

Postby caroline » Fri 04.20.2007 12:50 pm

5) 納豆が食べられるようになりました。
I became able to eat Natto ( makes sense?)
我(變得)萩h(敢吃) 納豆了。


With natto, yes it does! :D

and grammatically too...

other examples

皆がわかるように、ゆっくり話してください。
Please speak slowly so that everybody can understand you

田中さんに会ったら、電話するように 言ってくれませんか。
If you see M Tanaka, please tell him to phone me.

ようやく辞書なしで、日本語が読める ようになりました。
I finally became able to read japanese without a dictionary (嘘をつきました ;)


but ように may mean something else :

どのようにして日本語を学びましたか?
How did you learn japanese?

or another meaning :

彼女のように気の強い女の子に会ったことはありません
I never met a girl as stubborn as she is.

Hope it helps....
Last edited by caroline on Fri 04.20.2007 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ように

Postby ss » Fri 04.20.2007 11:52 pm

5) 納豆が食べられるようになりました。
I became able to eat Natto ( makes sense?)
我(變得)萩h(敢吃) 納豆了。


With natto, yes it does! :D

and grammatically too...



Thanks Caro for giving other example sentences. :)

Guess this >> 最近、太って しまったので、車に 乗らずに 駅まで 歩くように しています。

ImageI wonder eating natto often will gain weight or not, mama worries I will be swept away. :D
Last edited by ss on Sat 04.21.2007 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ように

Postby caroline » Sat 04.21.2007 6:03 am

最近、太って しまったので、車に 乗らずに 駅まで 歩くように しています。


Since I put on some weight lately, I walk to the station without taking my car.
(...I don't take my car in order to walk to the station)
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RE: ように

Postby paul_b » Sat 04.21.2007 6:47 am

caroline wrote:
最近、太って しまったので、車に 乗らずに 駅まで 歩くように しています。


ようにする is something of a special case ...

ようにする (exp) (following a verb) to be sure to; to make sure to; to try to; (P)

にする is often used for "making decisions" so it's an extension of that.
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RE: ように

Postby caroline » Sat 04.21.2007 7:42 am

ようにする is something of a special case ...

ようにする (exp) (following a verb) to be sure to; to make sure to; to try to; (P)

にする is often used for "making decisions" so it's an extension of that.


I was quite sure there was something there, but now, I know what it is.

Thanks
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RE: ように

Postby hiwa » Sat 04.21.2007 10:35 pm

> Make it a habit to sleep earlier.
This example English sentence certainly has ように implication, because by inserting the word 'habit' the action is objectified in speaker's mind.
> I’m going to study (more) harder.
> Let's study for JLPT3 on every Sunday.
These sentences and most of others here do not have because they lack factors objectifying the actions. Simpler Japanese, これからはもっと勉強します, 毎週日曜日にJLPT3の勉強をしましょう, should suffice for them.

As a contrived and unnatural English,
I will arrange myself to study harder.
may have the ように implication because the speaker tries to objectify the action 'study harder'.

Phew, explaining Japanese language is quite hard even for us natives!
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RE: ように

Postby ss » Sat 04.21.2007 10:48 pm

Hiwa wrote:
Phew, explaining Japanese language is quite hard even for us natives!


So now you realize it's not easy to teach, am I right to say that ?

Due to cultural difference and some other factors (some are fast learners, some are slow learners), all that I can say >>
we, learners, need time. Thanks for teaching, but it's always good to make it light and easy, so that learners enjoy it.

No offense pls.
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RE: ように

Postby hiwa » Sat 04.21.2007 11:47 pm

> So now you realize it's not easy to teach, am I right to say that ?
Yeah, of course you're right.
Preparing proper material would be much harder than explaining theory.
If I'm charged with a class, I shall faint instantly.
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RE: ように

Postby flammable hippo » Sun 04.22.2007 12:09 am

I remember trying to teach my friend some German so that she could be in the same level class as us and not have to go through a beginner class and it was actually pretty difficult to do. First off I didn't know where to start really and it seemed like whenever I explained one thing, there was something else that I needed to explain in order for it to make sense. Things got very sporadic and non sequitur.

Teaching is tough.
Two muffins were baking in an oven. One turns to the other and says "sure is hot in here." The other replies "AH TALKING MUFFIN!"

二つのマフィンがオーブンで焼かれていた。片方のマフィンがもう一方のマフィンに向かって、"暑いね”と言った。すると、話しかけられたほうのマフィンは"アッ!喋るマフィンだ!”と驚いた。 :)
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