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A couple of questions

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A couple of questions

Postby Tspoonami » Thu 08.09.2007 9:57 pm

I'm writing this down quickly, since I don't have much time right now (I'm making this thread so that I don't forget my questions).

1: What is the difference between the prefixes お and ご? I honestly have no idea, but if I were to guess, I would say お is honorific and ご is humble. That seems wrong to me, though. Also, how do you properly use the two? I remember reading that you can use お in front of adjectives and -なさい commands; does ご have rules like that?

2: What is the difference between -なくて and -ないで? Today, while doing some listening practice, I heard '気にしなくて' as a command, which is why I'm asking. I had previously thought -ないで was more for commands and -なくて was more for linking adjectival phrases, but was never truly sure of anything. Now, I'm completely unsure about these two.

I have more questions that I can't remember at the moment, but if I do remember, I will edit this post. If I made any mistakes or wrote anything stupid, let me know, please.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Harisenbon » Thu 08.09.2007 10:24 pm

My explanations often leave a lot to be desired, but I hope this helps:

Tspoonami wrote:
1: What is the difference between the prefixes お and ご? I honestly have no idea, but if I were to guess, I would say お is honorific and ご is humble. That seems wrong to me, though. Also, how do you properly use the two? I remember reading that you can use お in front of adjectives and -なさい commands; does ご have rules like that?


お and ご have the same meaning (honorific) and even the kanji is the same (御).
お is generally used before 和語 and 外来語, whereas ご is used before 漢語, although there are some exceptions.

Ex:
::和語::
お酒、お茶、お箸、おめでたい、お知らせ
::漢語::
ご説明、ご連絡、ご馳走

Tspoonami wrote:
2: What is the difference between -なくて and -ないで? Today, while doing some listening practice, I heard '気にしなくて' as a command, which is why I'm asking. I had previously thought -ないで was more for commands and -なくて was more for linking adjectival phrases, but was never truly sure of anything. Now, I'm completely unsure about these two.


I think you might have mis-heard in your listening practice.
〜しないで means "don't do 〜"
〜しなくて is a connector, and is often used in phrases such as
しなくてもいい
しなくてダメ

There could definately be exceptions to this that are just not coming to mind, but I can't think of when しなくて would be used as a command.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 08.09.2007 10:28 pm

Maybe 気にしなくて could be a suggestion rather than a command, if it's supposed to abbreviate 気にしなくてもいい. But this is a total guess.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Harisenbon » Thu 08.09.2007 10:32 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
Maybe 気にしなくて could be a suggestion rather than a command, if it's supposed to abbreviate 気にしなくてもいい. But this is a total guess.


That's what I was thinking as well, but it sounds really wierd when I say it out loud.. It really feels like somone just stopped in the middle of their sentence.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby richvh » Thu 08.09.2007 10:34 pm

お (usually) attaches to kun-yomi and ご (usually) attaches to on-yomi (though, as usual, exceptions abound). There is no difference in meaning.

I think Tae Kim says something about the difference between なくて and ないで. ないで is what you use for a negative request/command before くれる/くださる; なくて(は) would be part of a "must do" construct, before いけない or ならない. Otherwise, AしないでBする is "doing B without doing A" while AしなくてBする is "not doing A and doing B", to the best of my knowledge.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Tspoonami » Thu 08.09.2007 10:43 pm

Thanks, Rich!

But, really, thank you all. I understand much better now... I'll edit this thread if I have any more questions.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Gundaetiapo » Fri 08.10.2007 9:07 pm

気にしなくて


Could there be an implied いる after this?

しなくてダメ


Is the は in しなくてはだめ optional?
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 08.10.2007 9:52 pm

Could there be an implied いる after this?


I don't think so.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby keatonatron » Sat 08.11.2007 1:34 am

Harisenbon wrote:
I think you might have mis-heard in your listening practice.


I think you might have forgotten some of your Japanese ;)

These two grammar points are quite similar, but have very different meanings.

A 〜なくて B is used to show that B happens as a result of A not happening.

寝る前に、窓を閉めなくて風邪を引いた。
I didn't shut the window before sleeping and (so) I caught a cold.

A 〜ないで B simply means to do B without doing A first.

窓を閉めないで寝た。
I went to sleep without shutting the window.

If you were to mix up these examples, you would end up with:

寝る前に、窓を閉めないで風邪を引いた。
Before sleeping, I caught a cold without closing the window.

窓を閉めなくて寝た。
I slept because I didn't close the window.
(I didn't close the window and so I slept)
Last edited by keatonatron on Sat 08.11.2007 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Harisenbon » Sat 08.11.2007 1:57 am

keatonatron wrote:
I think you might have forgotten some of your Japanese ;)


:D While that is entirely true, the OP was asking about しなくて as a command as in 「気にしなくて。」 Which is incorrect.

Either that or I completely misunderstood the question, and am apparently forgetting English along with my Japanese. ;)
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby spin13 » Sat 08.11.2007 3:09 am

keatonatron wrote:
A 〜ないで B simply means to do B without doing A first.

窓を閉めないで寝た。
I went to sleep without shutting the window.


How does this compare with the negative perfect A ~ずに B?

窓を閉めずに寝た。
I would also translate this as, "I went to sleep without shutting the window."

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RE: A couple of questions

Postby richvh » Sat 08.11.2007 6:18 am

A〜ずにB is an archaic equivalent of A〜ないでB.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 08.11.2007 9:33 am

Although ず is from classical Japanese, the ずに construction is not really archaic; you can hear people say it even in casual speech.
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Harisenbon » Sat 08.11.2007 12:06 pm

せずに is definitely not archaic. I think I actually hear it more than ないで (in this situation). Of course, that may just be a factor of where I live. ;)
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RE: A couple of questions

Postby Mike Cash » Sat 08.11.2007 10:10 pm

I have to agree. 〜ずに is commonly used.

In the trucking industry, most commonly heard in utterances containing 寝ずに.
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