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Kobun problems.

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Kobun problems.

Postby uncivilizedinfanta » Sat 03.23.2013 7:29 am

I've translated a kobun text but there are some places, which just don't make any sense. Maybe someone can help me?

慶子が梅枝の出端見るやうに肩からふり込.
(It looked like Keiko (?) has come from Umegae (Branch of sakura? It is also a name of a chapter in Genji Monogatari. And also there is a kaidan story named Umegae about a ghost lady who destroyed a bell. But no Keiko is mentioned in any of those stories) and from the shoulder it rained (this doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe it's an expression?)

扨もおそろしい女子が有ものかなとあら肝をとられ私は何もしらぬ不調法者でごやりますと。
(And then the horrible woman took her liver (????) and said: "I am an unpleasant person, who doesn't know anything.)

奉公人の目見へに来たやうにしよげに成て。
(She started looking as if with the eyes of a servant.)

内儀は襲引つまげゆるりとお休なされと言捨て勝手へ入ぬ。
(The owner of the house made a long story short (?), dismissed the good-night wishes and came in on his own accord.)

合點の行ぬ事かなと。
(He said: "I am aware, that I will not go.")

二八けんどなばれ喰下卑た書の有たけするわろ達が。
(In 28 prefectures (?) they ate, and vulgar scripts were published.)

手前は暮前から一両傍別業へまいり。
(Our living from before came from another job for one Ryo.)

花月をいたして夜を更し。
(As he performed "Kagetsu" (A No play. Could be something else too – like "flower month or moon" but it would make even less sense), the night came.)
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Re: Kobun problems.

Postby Ongakuka » Sat 03.23.2013 9:06 pm

Without the full text it's pretty hard to work out, and beyond my level anyway. Since you have the text I can offer some of my own ideas, but I think only a Japanese person can help you with this.

1. やうに - I think here it means 'As Keiko watched/looked at the Sakura branch (I think 出端 must mean something like 'the part sticking out') ... from (i.e alongside) her shoulders.

the part I left out is ふり込 (I'm confused as there is no okurigana; is this ふりこむ?) which without context I can only assume refers to Sakura petals falling. If any of that fits what you are reading, it might be right, but I could be wrong on all accounts.

2. Seems like you translated it perfectly, though the sentence seems very odd. I wonder if あら肝 means 'actual liver' (あら=現実に存在する) as oppose to a metaphorical meaning for 肝 (心、気力)

不調法者 is synonymous with 不届かず者 so I think it's something more along the lines of 'fool'

3.成て - is this 命令形 ? I'd like to research more into the text you're translating but I have to go now. I doubt anything came of my post but, good luck, seems like you've done a great job so far :)
なぜなら、おまえは・・・・・・人形だ
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Re: Kobun problems.

Postby shin1ro » Wed 07.03.2013 1:36 am

Actually I don't understand this old language (probably from Edo period?) here and there,
but let me comment just a little bit.

梅枝 umegae is literally a branch of a plum tree ume, not sakura cherry tree. But here it may be a female name.
慶子 けいこ might be a female name but sometimes it may be a male name in older times, read as けいし.
出端 literally means 'the part sticking out' but also it's the same as 出鼻 でばな in modern Japanese, which means the moment of beginning of an action to go out or start.
ふり込 may be 降り込む to rain hard or 振りこむ to swing (a sword?) onto (something).
I don't understand the line...after all.

さても is a word which emphasizes an adjective (おそろしい in this case), appeared sometimes in old-fashioned story telling.
I guess 肝(きも)をとられる could be almost the same as 肝をつぶす idiom in modern Japanese, to be surprised very much (frequently with fear). There were various 肝 idioms.
不調法(ぶちょうほう) 不届き would mean inpolite, rude, foolish (I'm sure he described himself very humbly)
(Maybe you mean 不届き者, not 不届かず者 (I have never heard))
あら should be a kind of exclamation word such as "alas".

目見へに来たやうにしよげに成て
Mmmm... this might be まみえる + 来た
まみえる = to meet (someone)
来る = to come
やうに = ように in modern Japanese
しよげになりて ?? ....becomes disheartened?
I guess another sentence to follow afterwards.
しょげる be disheartened. ....but I may be wrong.

襲 おすい = a kind of ancient clothes
引きつまげる = 引く + つまげる
引く = pull
つまげる = (着物を)はしょる、(着物の裾を)持ち上げる pinch and lift up (the hem of the long clothes near feet)(usually, to walk easily, not to put her foot on the hem and fall down)
言い捨てる (いいすてる) = say something and leave there quickly
勝手 かって = kitchen

合點の行ぬ (がてんのゆかぬ) from 合点(がてん)がいかない an idiom in modern Japanese, unconvinced, cannot be agreeable, feel puzzled/strange

二八けんどなばれ喰下卑た書の有たけするわろ達が
I don't understand! I agree 下卑た書 will be vulgar books.
わろ達(わろたち) may mean やつら in modern Japanese, guys (kind of a swear word)
けん should not be prefecture. The word 県けん as prefecture in Japan is too new (after Meiji).

手前 = I or we
暮前から = from before the sunset (or the end of the year)
一両傍 = ?
....一両 = one ryo (ryo is an ancient money unit) or 両傍 = both sides
別業 = 別荘 another house/(country) cottage/villa
まいる = go

花月 かげつ = 風流な遊び elegant amusement for pleasure
いたす = do
夜を更し (よをふかし) = to spend/consume long time until late at night

Actually there're too many words I don't know. I used my Kojien (old Ed. 4) electronic dictionaries a lot to look up thoese unknown words. ...This is too tough for me!

-shin1ro
英語がおかしければご指摘ください(日本語も...)。サンキュ〜 ;-)
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