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What does atta mean?

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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 12.10.2008 3:13 pm

richvh wrote:I don't know about the Lutherans or Baptists, but as a scion of the Reformed Church in America, I know the Calvinists hold to the Nicene Creed and thus to the Trinity.

I believe that the Abyssinian, Coptic and Nestorian Churches are surviving branches of the Monophysite branch of Christianity, who have different ideas about the nature of Christ.


I might have been a bit hasty with my assessment, I should have put the caveat that my wording was "MY EXPERIENCE" only. Meaning the majority of those that I ran into did not believe in the Holy Trinity. So, for clarification, even if their congregation preached such, they were not believing it.. Of course, then that leads to the question of why attend a congregation where one does not agree? And that opens a bag of worms I think we should avoid.
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby SmileyDJingles » Thu 12.11.2008 1:41 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
SmileyDJingles wrote:The Christian God is a three in one God. One God three parts. The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, and God the Father.


Nope.. That's more Catholic (Holy Trinity) than Christian. And of course, I'm not saying that Catholic is not Christian, but rather than that certain belief, one in three, three in one, is pretty particular to a certain religion.


I do believe your wrong on this one.

I did a little research today.

Hear, O Israel: The Lord your God, the Lord is one. Deuteronomy 6:4 NIV

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee,to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him,they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:16-20 NIV

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. John 14:9-11 NIV

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you. 2 Corinthians 13:14 NIV


"There are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one God, the same in substance, equal in power and glory." The unity of the Godhead is unanimously attested throughout the entire range of the Judeo-Christian sources." From: Zondervan's Compact Bible Dictionary

All Christians, no matter what denomination, should have about the basic same belief in the Trinity. The Bible does not change for each denomination. People may choose to believe different, but what the Bible says stays the same. Christianity is based on the Bible.

The Biblical meaning of Christian is "adherent of Christ." The disciples were formally called Christians first in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Agrippa recognized that to believe what Paul preached would make him a Christian (Acts 26:28). Peter accepted the name as in itself basis for persecution (I Pet. 4:16). The apostles wrote of themselves as servants (slaves) of Christ (Rom. 1:1; James 1:1; II Pet. 1:1; Jude 1:1; Rev. 1:1). The NT calls the followers of Christ brethren (Acts 6:1, 2); saints (Acts 9:13; Rom. 1:7; I Cor. 1:2); believers (I Tim. 4:12); the church of God (Acts 20:28); those that call upon the name of the Lord (Acts 9:14; Rom. 10:12,13).
From: Zondervan's Compact Bible Dictionary
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby nukemarine » Thu 12.11.2008 5:25 am

SmileyDJingles wrote:
All Christians, no matter what denomination, should have about the basic same belief in the Trinity. The Bible does not change for each denomination. People may choose to believe different, but what the Bible says stays the same. Christianity is based on the Bible.



Ok, here we're going to deep and will create a feces storm. Look, it's cute you think the Christian bible does not change, but you forget it's all about interpretation of a translation of a secondary viewpoint (I'll not go so far as say delusion, though some of it may be). The fact that Japanese shows do not change (say, "Nodame Cantabile"), does not stop five different translations from popping up. Each with it's own flavor.

Hey, I can pick texts out of the Christian variant to say you should not pray in public (Matthew 6:5-13). Another will say, no, that's how you should pray in public.

Hence, the minute you start bringing out texts of the Christian bible to justify your argument on how "all" Christians should act and believe, you've already conceded defeat in my view. The Christian bible is irrelevant to the belief of an existing sect. Similar to how the grammar rules being stressed in your Japanese class is irrelevant to a construction site locker room conversation in Osaka.

Religious belief, like language, is fluid. The minute you start nailing it down, it's gonna get ugly and devoid of anything it was. So let's avoid the quotes, and broad generalizations of what all Christians should be. Even better, try to work Japanese into your argument (this is a Translation forum, after all).
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby Sairana » Thu 12.11.2008 6:38 am

nukemarine wrote:Ok, here we're going to deep and will create a feces storm.


/agree

That last post moved it out of the realm of objective discussion and into the whole "I'm right, you're wrong" bit.

richvh wrote:I don't know about the Lutherans or Baptists, but as a scion of the Reformed Church in America, I know the Calvinists hold to the Nicene Creed and thus to the Trinity.


I was raised Lutheran. They also believe in the Trinity, and are very, very fond of the "apple" analogy. Skin, meat, core... three parts, one apple.
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 12.11.2008 10:46 am

SmileyDJingles wrote:All Christians, no matter what denomination, should have about the basic same belief in the Trinity. The Bible does not change for each denomination. People may choose to believe different, but what the Bible says stays the same. Christianity is based on the Bible.


If we're going to stick to religion discussion, as I said, we cannot have denominational arguments. "Christianity is based on the Bible" is a Protestant statement that does not apply to Catholicism, Mormon, and perhaps some other denominations of Christianity.

But maybe it's time to close this thread?
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 12.11.2008 11:30 am

I agree Chris, the only way I could answer SmileyDJingles is to compare the Kings James version of the Bible to his NIV version and at that point it would be nothing but a religious debate. I've offered my opinion of it already and stand by my statements.

I'd say the moderators should look closely at the thread and lock it if they feel it's going to spin out of contral, and if it does, I would think it won't take much to push it over..
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Re: What dose atta mean?

Postby AJBryant » Thu 12.11.2008 8:00 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:Most of your Japanese Bibles are also a translation from German scripture and so have many comparisons to that language. Jehova is Ehoba, Jesus is Iesu (but that's more of a Greek/hebrew to German to Japanese) Jacob is Yakobu, John is Yohane, etc..


You should try being Orthodox in Japan (東正教) -- all the names are transliterated from the SLAVONIC, so Jesus becomes Isusu, Matthew is Mattofei, etc.

Makes carrying on conversations difficult, as people know Iesu Kirisuto, but have no idea who this Isusu Harisutosu is....

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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby Infidel » Thu 12.11.2008 8:09 pm

I didn't know Orthodox Christians had a presence in Japan....

Btw, when you say Orthodox, do you mean Russian, Greek, or some other Orthodox? Orthodox is the one branch of Christianity that I never could wrap my mind around.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 12.11.2008 8:57 pm

Infidel wrote:I didn't know Orthodox Christians had a presence in Japan....

Btw, when you say Orthodox, do you mean Russian, Greek, or some other Orthodox? Orthodox is the one branch of Christianity that I never could wrap my mind around.


Orthodox includes a whole family of Christianity -- it's the third major division (aside from Catholic and Protestant); the Orthodox churches broke off from Catholicism in the 11th Century in something called the "Great Schism", over (among other things) the filioque clause and the authority of the Pope.
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby AJBryant » Thu 12.11.2008 11:06 pm

Actually, we tend to say the Roman Catholics broke off from *us* as the Church before that was conciliar in nature (everything was councils) and all bishops were equal and supreme in their diocese rather than the whole shebang being run by a single person.

But, yeah. This is getting dangerously close to the shut-down point.

If we can keep it on LANGUAGE and away from the "I'm going to show you why you're wrong," we'll let it go.


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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 12.11.2008 11:15 pm

AJBryant wrote:Actually, we tend to say the Roman Catholics broke off from *us* as the Church before that was conciliar in nature (everything was councils) and all bishops were equal and supreme in their diocese rather than the whole shebang being run by a single person.


Yeah, I guess it's a matter of POV. Perhaps the best way to say it is that Christianity split into two major divisions at that point, or something like that.
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 12.12.2008 9:41 am

AJBryant wrote:Actually, we tend to say the Roman Catholics broke off from *us* as the Church before that was conciliar in nature (everything was councils) and all bishops were equal and supreme in their diocese rather than the whole shebang being run by a single person.

But, yeah. This is getting dangerously close to the shut-down point.

If we can keep it on LANGUAGE and away from the "I'm going to show you why you're wrong," we'll let it go.


Tony


I'm gonna show you why you're wrong.. In about a year or so.... just sayin' :mrgreen:
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Re: What does atta mean?

Postby BetterSense » Sat 01.10.2009 6:53 am

I have a bilingual bible. The English is the New International Version and the Japanese is the New Japanese Bible.

I checked the Christian bible (with side by side Japanese/English), and saw the items Yudan talked about.


What bibles are these, and where can I get them? I would be very interested in a bilingual bible. Best japanese translation?
I know you believe you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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