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Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

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Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Jack W » Thu 12.25.2008 11:09 pm

Hi everyone, I’m back to get some help on another translation. I liked the opening theme song to Busou Renkin, if not so much the show itself. Recently I found the text to the full version of this song, and while I can get the gist of most of the song, the beginning of one verse is throwing me for a loop. I thought I’d first make sure I’m getting the transcription from roomaji to kana and kanji correct:

itsudatte kibou ni afureta
sono egao kodomotachi no yume
doushitemo mamorinukanakucha
kono atsui chi nagarederu kagiri

いつだって希望に溢れた
その笑顔子供たちの夢
どうしても守り抜かなくちゃ
この熱い血が流れ出る限り

For the sake of giving as much context as I can without quoting the entire song – I’m pretty sure that the singer is meant to be the hero of the anime. Which is to say, the hero of almost any shounen anime – some teenage boy with a huge sword / super powers / special skills, who wants to “become stronger” so he can “protect those precious to him.”

The thing that’s tripping me up is that, while I’ve figured out what most of these words and phrases mean (understanding that nothing much “means” anything in isolation), and could even take a stab at the tongue-twister mamori-nuka-nakute wa, the meaning of the whole sentence evades me because I can’t figure out for the life of me who it’s about. In other words, who is always overflowing in hope? The singer? Or perhaps what Jay Rubin in Making Sense of Japanese calls the “zero pronoun?” Whose smiling face are we talking about here, the singer’s, the zero pronoun’s, or someone else’s entirely? Is it the singer, or the smiling face, or the children’s dreams, or someone else, that is the beneficiary of mamorinukanakucha?

The last line makes a little more sense to me, only I'm not certain whether to take nagarederu as some kind of compound verb nagareru+deru, or as the noun nagare followed by the verb deru. In other words, "as long as this hot blood flows out?" Or "as long as this stream of hot blood is coming out?" Though I guess it's pretty much the same thing either way....

Thanks in advance! :)
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby richvh » Thu 12.25.2008 11:42 pm

It's the dreams of the smiling children that are always overflowing with hope. Everything up to 夢 is a single noun-phrase. Also, 流れ出る is a compound verb; look it up in edict. (WWWJDIC, jisho.org, or whatever other interface to edict you prefer.)
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby AJBryant » Thu 12.25.2008 11:48 pm

Jack W wrote:I can’t figure out for the life of me who it’s about.



Join the club. I'm *still* trying to figure out "Hotel California."


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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby becki_kanou » Thu 12.25.2008 11:48 pm

Jack W wrote:itsudatte kibou ni afureta
sono egao kodomotachi no yume
doushitemo mamorinukanakucha
kono atsui chi nagarederu kagiri

いつだって希望に溢れた
その笑顔子供たちの夢
どうしても守り抜かなくちゃ
この熱い血が流れ出る限り

The thing that’s tripping me up is that, while I’ve figured out what most of these words and phrases mean (understanding that nothing much “means” anything in isolation), and could even take a stab at the tongue-twister mamori-nuka-nakute wa, the meaning of the whole sentence evades me because I can’t figure out for the life of me who it’s about. In other words, who is always overflowing in hope? The singer? Or perhaps what Jay Rubin in Making Sense of Japanese calls the “zero pronoun?” Whose smiling face are we talking about here, the singer’s, the zero pronoun’s, or someone else’s entirely? Is it the singer, or the smiling face, or the children’s dreams, or someone else, that is the beneficiary of mamorinukanakucha?


I hope the melody is good, 'cause the lyrics are awful. To each his own though. :D

I'm going to guess that いつだって希望にあふれたその笑顔 is "your always hopeful smile" i.e. the person being sung to's smile. So then the "things I must protect (through hardship) as long as this hot blood flows through me" are "your always hopeful smile" and "the children's always hopeful dreams", because いつだって希望に溢れた is modifying both その笑顔 and 子供達の夢.


Make sense?
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
例え胸の傷が痛んでも。
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Jack W » Fri 12.26.2008 12:46 am

becki_kanou wrote:I hope the melody is good, 'cause the lyrics are awful. To each his own though. :D
Well, one mustn't expect deep philosophy coming from the lips of the hero of a shounen anime, whose sword is bigger than his brain. :roll: I am not a big fan of rock music in general, and was probably lured in by the three-part harmony in the song. I always find it refreshing when singers actually sing. But that is a topic for an entirely different discussion.

becki_kanou wrote:I'm going to guess that いつだって希望にあふれたその笑顔 is "your always hopeful smile" i.e. the person being sung to's smile. So then the "things I must protect (through hardship) as long as this hot blood flows through me" are "your always hopeful smile" and "the children's always hopeful dreams", because いつだって希望に溢れた is modifying both その笑顔 and 子供達の夢.


Make sense?

Yes, and the more I can put it together with help from you guys, the more it is sounding like something the aforementioned teenager with the huge sword would say. Only I don't remember his female companion smiling even once, hopefully or otherwise. Which makes me lean toward richvh's interpretation.

So if I were to attempt a translation, maybe it would make better English if I started at the end:

As long as this hot blood flows through me,
I must deprive myself in order to protect
the dreams of the children with smiling faces,
always overflowing in hope.

Thus purposely leaving it somewhat ambiguous about what exactly is overflowing in hope. Close? Not close?
Last edited by Jack W on Fri 12.26.2008 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 12.26.2008 1:15 am

Jack W wrote:Yes, and the more I can put it together with help from you guys, the more it is sounding like something the aforementioned teenager with the huge sword would say. Only I don't remember his female companion smiling even once, hopefully or otherwise. Which makes me lean toward richvh's interpretation.

It can't be "smiling children" though because there's no particle connecting the two phrases. They are separate phrases both being modified by いつだって希望に溢れた. My resident native speaker confirms.

So if I were to attempt a translation, maybe it would make better English if I started at the end:

As long as this hot blood flows through me,
I must deprive myself in order to protect
the dreams of the children with smiling faces,
always overflowing in hope.

Thus purposely leaving it somewhat ambiguous about what exactly is overflowing in hope. Close? Not close?


I don't know where you got deprive myself from. Vb〜ぬく is about going through or overcoming a difficult situation, there is not necessarily any deprivation involved. Your idea of reversing the order makes it much more natural though, and you often have to do this when translating to English.

Maybe something like this:

"As long as this hot blood flows through me
I must struggle to protect
your smiling face and the childrens' dreams
always overflowing with hope"
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
例え胸の傷が痛んでも。
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Jack W » Fri 12.26.2008 11:51 am

becki_kanou wrote:I don't know where you got deprive myself from. Vb〜ぬく is about going through or overcoming a difficult situation, there is not necessarily any deprivation involved.

Sorry, I misunderstood your parenthetical comment "through hardship." This "nuku" idea is a new one on me. Should I replace the second kanji in 守り抜かなくちゃ and make it just 守りぬかなくちゃ?

Since I've started this thread, I might as well see how I did on the rest of the verse, for which (since it never was part of the TV size opening song) I never had the benefit of subtitles. Again I'll give the roomaji first, in order to make sure my conversion to kana and kanji was correct. And again you can expect the same high level of philosophical depth. :)

nandemo ii kara daremo nakanai sekai ga hoshii
zettai mitsukerunda shinjitsu no kagi

nando MISU shite ochikonda toshitemo
akiramecha DAME da mae wo mukou
taisetsu na mono mamoru kono shimei wo
omoikkiri dakishimete makkana chikai

なんでもいいからだれも泣かない世界が欲しい
絶対見つけるんだ真実の鍵

なんどミスして落ち込んだ賭しても
諦めちゃ ダメだ前を無効
大切な者守るこの使命を
思いっきり抱きしめて真っ赤な誓い

I want a world where no one weeps because everything is good.
I will definitely find it, the key to the truth.

Even if I felt down so many times for making a mistake,
it’s useless to give up before it’s futile.
I will embrace this mission of protecting those who are
precious to me with all my heart, a blood-red oath.

You knew we'd get to protecting-precious-ones eventually, right? :) Anyway, thanks again!
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 12.26.2008 6:29 pm

Jack W wrote:nandemo ii kara daremo nakanai sekai ga hoshii
zettai mitsukerunda shinjitsu no kagi

nando MISU shite ochikonda toshitemo
akiramecha DAME da mae wo mukou
taisetsu na mono mamoru kono shimei wo
omoikkiri dakishimete makkana chikai

なんでもいいからだれも泣かない世界が欲しい
絶対見つけるんだ真実の鍵

なんどミスして落ち込んだ賭しても


としても

諦めちゃ ダメだ前を無効


向こう

大切な者守るこの使命を


This もの is almost certainly 物 (thing) rather than 者 (being); if this were specifically a person it would be 人 instead (もの used to mean a person has a very formal/archaic sound to it).
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Jack W » Fri 12.26.2008 9:22 pm

I do remember wondering which mono and also which mukou to go with. The first mukou I tried didn't seem to make sense anyway. So now I have:

なんどミスして落ち込んだとしても
諦めちゃ ダメだ前を向こう
大切な物守るこの使命を
思いっきり抱きしめて真っ赤な誓い

And I'm still struggling with the first two lines, which is to say that I am guessing (as you all no doubt know), so I apologize for insisting on trying anyway, but here's what I came up with:

Even if I've felt sad no matter how often I make mistakes,
it’s no use giving up before (it's over/I see this through/have to do something with "mukou").
I will embrace this mission of protecting that which is precious to me
with all my heart, a blood-red oath.
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 12.26.2008 10:53 pm

Jack W wrote:I do remember wondering which mono and also which mukou to go with. The first mukou I tried didn't seem to make sense anyway. So now I have:

なんどミスして落ち込んだとしても
諦めちゃ ダメだ前を向こう
大切な物守るこの使命を
思いっきり抱きしめて真っ赤な誓い

And I'm still struggling with the first two lines, which is to say that I am guessing (as you all no doubt know), so I apologize for insisting on trying anyway, but here's what I came up with:

Even if I've felt sad no matter how often I make mistakes,
it’s no use giving up before (it's over/I see this through/have to do something with "mukou").
I will embrace this mission of protecting that which is precious to me
with all my heart, a blood-red oath.


The second line is two separate sentences (well, conclusion of the sentence from the first line). You should imagine a period after だ. i.e. "I can't give up. I'll face forward (literally; it means facing the future)"
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby richvh » Fri 12.26.2008 11:02 pm

In that first line, that も goes with the 何度 at the beginning.

In the second line, 向こう is the volitional form of 向く.

In the last line, your translation ignores completely 抱きしめて.
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 12.27.2008 8:55 am

richvh wrote:In the last line, your translation ignores completely 抱きしめて.


I think it's in the 3rd line; he inverted the 4th and 3rd lines to make the English flow better.
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Jack W » Sat 12.27.2008 12:40 pm

Thanks again to both of you, I was wondering about that too -- though I guess I shouldn't necessarily use the future tense for the -te form. Also, when I look up 抱きしめる on the WWWJDIC, it says it's about embracing a person. The most non-person-like example of an object of 抱きしめる that they give in a sentence, is a doll. The only other time I've noticed the term is in the first words of the original 1986 Saint Seiya opening song, 抱きしめた心のコスモ, which I guess is "X embraced the cosmos of X's heart" or something like that. So that's all I have to go on in terms of embracing a non-person for 抱きしめる, though I realize one phrase in one song used in one old-school anime isn't a whole lot.

I had actually looked up としても as a whole, and wasn't thinking in terms of separating the も out by itself. I'm having a bit of trouble doing so, since I have to think that 落ち込んだ is in the past tense while ミスして is not.

Anyway, I completely accept the rules around here and as such I have no intention of someone doing this for me, so if you can put up with another attempt at that last phrase:

何度ミスして落ち込んだとしても
諦めちゃ ダメだ前を向こう
大切な物守るこの使命を
思いっきり抱きしめて真っ赤な誓い

However many times I've felt down for making mistakes so often,
I can't give up. I will face the future.
I embrace this mission of protecting that which is precious to me
with all my heart, a blood-red oath.

Getting closer, I hope?
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 12.27.2008 3:34 pm

Jack W wrote:Thanks again to both of you, I was wondering about that too -- though I guess I shouldn't necessarily use the future tense for the -te form.


-te denotes aspect, not tense. The verb in the -te form will generally be in the same tense as the final verb of the sentence.

Also, when I look up 抱きしめる on the WWWJDIC, it says it's about embracing a person.


Generally that may be true, but any word can be used metaphorically.

I had actually looked up としても as a whole, and wasn't thinking in terms of separating the も out by itself. I'm having a bit of trouble doing so, since I have to think that 落ち込んだ is in the past tense while ミスして is not.


Xとしても means "Given situation X, Y happens which is contrary to expectation." So in this case, even though he failed and felt bad many times, he can't give up.

As above, the ミスして connects to 落ち込んだ, and since 落ち込んだ is past, the ミス also is in the past as well (before the 落ち込んだ).
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Re: Some song lyrics with interesting/complex verbs

Postby Jack W » Sat 12.27.2008 9:54 pm

Very good, I think that allows me to put the finishing touches on. Also I think a light bulb just went on about the -te form. I can't even quite remember if I've got to the -te form yet in Japanese for Busy People -- I think it's still all desu/masu everywhere. I guess I have to crawl before I can walk, right?

Thanks again, everyone! :)
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