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Mamorubeki?

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Mamorubeki?

Postby Kasumii-Chan » Fri 01.23.2009 11:41 am

I was looking through the new Katekyo Hitman Reborn! Character songs and saw something that I just didn't understand. Of course, my Japanese isn't the very best, but I would still appriciate help, even if you think I'm kind of stupid...

"Mamorubeki mono."

I know that "Mamoru" means "To Protect; To guard" and what adding "Mono" does, but, why add "Beki" to "Mamoru"? I know it's a stupid question, but, I'd still appriciate your help.

Also, what I traslated (Without the one thing that confused me.) from it was "Those (I must.) Protect", but, without knowing what adding "beki" does, I'm not sure that this is even close.
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Re: Mamorubeki?

Postby AJBryant » Fri 01.23.2009 11:53 am

-beki is attached to the dictionary form of a verb and carries the meaning "must".

A "yomubeki hon" is a "book that must be read" and a "mamorubeki mono" is a "person or thing that must be protected".



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Re: Mamorubeki?

Postby Kasumii-Chan » Fri 01.23.2009 11:59 am

Thank you so much! <3 I truly appreciate it.
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Re: Mamorubeki?

Postby Hyperworm » Fri 01.23.2009 4:07 pm

AJBryant wrote:A "yomubeki hon" is a "book that must be read" and a "mamorubeki mono" is a "person or thing that must be protected".
Technically shouldn't that be "a book that [I] must read" and "a thing that [I] must protect"?
(vs. yomarerubeki hon, mamorarerubeki mono)
Not a big difference in most cases of course...

For completeness's sake: "beki" can also mean "should" as well as "must".
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Re: Mamorubeki?

Postby NocturnalOcean » Fri 01.23.2009 4:14 pm

Hyperworm wrote:
AJBryant wrote:A "yomubeki hon" is a "book that must be read" and a "mamorubeki mono" is a "person or thing that must be protected".
Technically shouldn't that be "a book that [I] must read" and "a thing that [I] must protect"?
(vs. yomarerubeki hon, mamorarerubeki mono)
Not a big difference in most cases of course...

For completeness's sake: "beki" can also mean "should" as well as "must".


No it shouldn't. You have to be careful in using passive in Japanese where you would normally use passive in English or other languages.
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Re: Mamorubeki?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 01.23.2009 5:18 pm

Hyperworm wrote:For completeness's sake: "beki" can also mean "should" as well as "must".


But only when "should" is used with the meaning of "must"; "You should try the fish" would be expressed in Japanese with ほうがいい, not べき.
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Re: Mamorubeki?

Postby Hyperworm » Fri 01.23.2009 8:10 pm

NocturnalOcean wrote:You have to be careful in using passive in Japanese where you would normally use passive in English
I'm a little confused by this. I agree with your point, but it doesn't actually counter my statement.

You're saying that you need to be careful about using the Japanese passive (守られるべきもの) where you would use the English passive ("something that must be protected"), because it may be more natural to use the Japanese active voice (守るべきもの)?
I agree, but that doesn't mean that 守るべきもの=「a thing that must be protected」 (passive). It can still mean "a thing [we] must protect" (active) and yet be the more natural choice for translation of an English passive sentence. The most natural translation doesn't necessarily mean the exact same thing as the English. (e.g., がんばって vs. "good luck")

Well, never mind all that - the reason I got hung up on "technical (literal) meaning" and mentioned that this is a grammatically active (not passive) construct is simply so that the OP could more easily make sense of things like 「君が守るべきもの」, which I'm pretty sure is "a thing you must protect", this time at least >_>

Yudan-san:
I'm not even sure if I can come up with a counterexample ... I keep thinking I have, but then I start thinking maybe I'm reading "should" the wrong way and it is the same as "must" after all... I don't know anymore :lol:
Maybe my point was trivial... :s

(ahh i don't like it when i mess things up >_> sorry everyone)
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