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Speech Therapy and Algarve

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Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby sei » Fri 01.23.2009 5:58 pm

I was wanting to do a small introduction of myself in Japanese, but when I got to the part of saying which University I'm a student at, and what my course is... I got stuck.

The one causing most trouble is of course, Speech Therapy. How is this said in Japanese? They do have an area equivalent to it right? So how is this called in Japanese?

The other one is merely a confusion on pronunciation. I would say Algarve is said as 「アルガルフ」. But was told it should be 「アルガルブ」. The last Kana is the confusing one. [v] is closer to [f] in reality, and considering there is a common used [fu] sound in Japanese, I figured that was how it would be written. But apparently it is more common to have all [v] sounds pronounced [b] in Japanese? I know words like Violin will have a [b] sound instead of [f] in Japanese, but all examples given to me are always [vi], not a [vu] sound. So when trying to get the right pronunciation for "Algarve", I went for [fu] as it sounds more natural to me (besides, in the Portuguese word, the last vowel sound is very faded, just like it can happen in Japanese, and the [v] ends up sounding close to [f] for an unexperienced ear).

I have a feeling that ended up becoming a bit too confusing... I hope someone who understand a bit of phonetics will be able to understand. >.<

All in all, I would just like to know how I should be saying these 2 words. :P

Thank you for any answer,

sei
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Re: Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 01.23.2009 6:48 pm

Wikipedia has アルガルヴェ for Algarve. "v" sounds are usually represented either with the b-row or with ヴ + small katakana.

(Wikipedia is a very useful source to find Japanese words for things, places, and people -- just go to the page for the thing you want and then click the 日本語 link at the left. For speech therapy the Japanese wikipedia has 言語聴覚療法.)
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Re: Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby ニッキー » Fri 01.23.2009 6:56 pm

Well, [b] is still fairly similar to [v]. I think the problem with [f] is that the voicing is different. I notice even in English that there are a number of dialects where even if people change 'th' to other sounds, the voicing never changes so those speakers use pairs like [t] and [d] or [f] and [v]. I'm guessing it's similar for Japanese speakers when they adapt words.
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Re: Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby sei » Fri 01.23.2009 8:40 pm

Thanks Chris! I hadn't thought of doing that with wiki. Thanks for the tip. :P

And I'm not sure I understand what you mean ニッキー. The only difference between [v] and [f] is the voicing yes (I think that's the correct english term). While [v] is voiced (vocal chords vibrate), [f] isn't. I'm afraid I didn't understand what you mean with the pairs.

On the other hand, if you mean something like, Japanese people (and certain people from regions with English dialects), can't "ear" the difference between [v] and [f] for example, then that'd relate to what I said. If they don't hear the difference between [v] and [f] then the correct sound to use for sure would be [f], as that'd actually be the sound they would "hear" when we said [v]. I find it hard to believe they don't actually "hear" the sound though. What could happen is that since the sound isn't in their language/speech, when they hear the "strange" sound, they just relate it to the closest they can find in their own language/speech, which, in the case of Japanese, would be [f] (I'd guess).

If you didn't mean anything like that, just ignore what I said. :lol:
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Re: Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby katafei » Sat 01.24.2009 3:19 am

I think that Nikki means that a lot of people pronounce each pair the same, even though there should be a difference.



They may (unconsciously) hear the difference, but they don't use it.
In Dutch we have a famous example:
Many(??) people will say:
Ik hep de son in de see sien sakken
while it should be:
ik heb de zon in de zee zien zakken :lol:

(I've seen the sun go down in the sea)
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Re: Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby sei » Sat 01.24.2009 10:03 am

Oh I see. I have a bit hard time understanding how those are "usual" things. Here in Portugal that would be considered a speech or language "problem", which would be treated... by speech therapists. :P

On the other hand it may be because it would affect the comprehension of the speech. Maybe in those languages it doesn't affect it as much?

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the answers again. :)
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Re: Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 01.24.2009 10:25 am

sei wrote:Oh I see. I have a bit hard time understanding how those are "usual" things. Here in Portugal that would be considered a speech or language "problem", which would be treated... by speech therapists. :P


That's because the difference between "v" and "f" is part of Portuguese. If you have trouble hearing Chinese tones (which is very likely if you haven't studied Chinese), do you go to a speech therapist? Everyone has certain sounds that they cannot hear or distinguish because they aren't part of their native langauge.
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Re: Speech Therapy and Algarve

Postby sei » Sat 01.24.2009 12:10 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:That's because the difference between "v" and "f" is part of Portuguese. If you have trouble hearing Chinese tones (which is very likely if you haven't studied Chinese), do you go to a speech therapist? Everyone has certain sounds that they cannot hear or distinguish because they aren't part of their native langauge.


Yes, I thought that might be the reason. And I understand your point, but I'm just going to be picky and say that yes, they could go to a speech therapist. :P Though it'd probably need to be a native speaker of the language one is trying to learn. Speech Therapist don't work only on solving "problems" in a natives' speech, but also work with foreigners accents and discrimination [of sounds] problems they might have (just like natives have as well for their own language, this is rather usual in fact). But here I'm just bragging about my course. :mrgreen:
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