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Level

Do you have a translation question?

Level

Postby kurisuto » Fri 01.30.2009 2:29 pm

How would you say "level" as in "level of politeness" and "level (of profiency) in Japanese" ? Here's my attempt :

丁寧さの程度
日本語の熟達度

And also I wanted to know the difference between 程度, レベル, and 段階. Any help much appreciated.
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Re: Level

Postby richvh » Fri 01.30.2009 2:47 pm

丁寧さの程度 looks OK to me, but I think 日本語熟達の段階 might be better than your second attempt.

As for the differences, how about checking the example sentences at WWWJDIC or ALC and see for yourself?
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Re: Level

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 01.30.2009 3:02 pm

What's your context for "level (of proficiency) in Japanese"? There are various ways to express that depending on exactly what you are trying to say.
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Re: Level

Postby kurisuto » Fri 01.30.2009 3:08 pm

richvh wrote:As for the differences, how about checking the example sentences at WWWJDIC or ALC and see for yourself?


Sorry, I'll check them.

Yudan Taiteki wrote:What's your context for "level (of proficiency) in Japanese"? There are various ways to express that depending on exactly what you are trying to say.


Right, it's a bit ambiguous : I meant something like whether you can speak a language well or not, the extent to which you master it.
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Re: Level

Postby keatonatron » Fri 01.30.2009 3:18 pm

I usually use 日本語能力 for "Japanese proficiency". With this phrase, you don't really need a separate word to specify "level of".
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Re: Level

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 01.30.2009 3:59 pm

kurisuto wrote:Right, it's a bit ambiguous : I meant something like whether you can speak a language well or not, the extent to which you master it.


In that case you're typically just going to use an expression like 彼は日本語が上手 or 新聞を読める or something like that. Saying something like 日本語能力 is only used when you have some specific basis or when you're speaking in a rather technical context where an exact "level" is important.

Think about it in English; if you're just talking normally, you're much more likely to say "He's pretty good at Japanese" or "He can read newspapers" rather than "He has a high level of proficiency".
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Re: Level

Postby kurisuto » Fri 01.30.2009 4:16 pm

Thank you for your explanations, but the word I'm looking for is a bit more general (in fact, maybe the word doesn't exist) : I'm looking for a word you can use for both the positive meaning and the negative, like where the only thing I would have to change would be the modifying adjective (a good level or a bad level). Can 能力 (or another word) be modified that way, or should I simply stick to 下手 and 上手 ?

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Think about it in English; if you're just talking normally, you're much more likely to say "He's pretty good at Japanese" or "He can read newspapers" rather than "He has a high level of proficiency".


Right, maybe the expression I'm looking for is too loaded, a bit awkward (sorry, I know I'm being picky !).
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Re: Level

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 01.30.2009 4:26 pm

kurisuto wrote:Thank you for your explanations, but the word I'm looking for is a bit more general


I do not think there is any word that you can use naturally in Japanese like that. 能力 works and will get your meaning across, but in most cases it will sound a little odd.
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Re: Level

Postby kurisuto » Fri 01.30.2009 4:37 pm

Ah, OK, I'll stick to jouzu/heta then. Thank you !
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Re: Level

Postby keatonatron » Fri 01.30.2009 4:44 pm

Please note that you can't simply say "日本語能力です" and leave it at that. You can say 日本語能力が上手です or 日本語能力がうまい or 私の日本語能力は彼よりいい [My Japanese proficiency is better than his].

This post is mostly directed at Chris, since he's the one trashing my idea without having it explained fully :lol:
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Re: Level

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 01.30.2009 4:51 pm

keatonatron wrote:Please note that you can't simply say "日本語能力です" and leave it at that. You can say 日本語能力が上手です or 日本語能力がうまい or 私の日本語能力は彼よりいい [My Japanese proficiency is better than his].

This post is mostly directed at Chris, since he's the one trashing my idea without having it explained fully :lol:


I didn't necessarily mean to "trash" your idea, but I still think that 日本語が上手 is going to be more common than 日本語能力が上手...maybe I'm wrong, though.
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Re: Level

Postby kurisuto » Fri 01.30.2009 5:34 pm

keatonatron wrote:Please note that you can't simply say "日本語能力です" and leave it at that. You can say 日本語能力が上手です or 日本語能力がうまい or 私の日本語能力は彼よりいい [My Japanese proficiency is better than his].


Great ! That's what I was looking for, an objective way of saying level, not intrinsiqually good or bad. Thank you !
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Re: Level

Postby NocturnalOcean » Fri 01.30.2009 9:15 pm

If you choose to use 能力, I think it is better coupled with 高い and 低い.
Ex: 彼の日本語能力は相当高いそうだ。

Also I think just using レベル is fine. For example, 会話能力レベル.
Seems to get a lot of hits in Google as well.
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Re: Level

Postby kurisuto » Fri 01.30.2009 9:31 pm

Thank you for your answer, really helpful !
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