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Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

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Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby grodzix » Mon 02.23.2009 5:09 pm

Hi everyone,

I've just learned about 〜すぎる thingy and I've tried to write "I need too much sleep" meaning that I need to sleep much more than other people not to be tired during the day which is annoying. What I've came up with is:
長く寝るのがいみすぎます。
and I'm not exactly sure whether it's correct. Help highly appreciated.
Last edited by grodzix on Mon 02.23.2009 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
これなに?
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby richvh » Mon 02.23.2009 5:28 pm

眠りすぎなければいけません
他人よりも眠らなければなりません
他人よりも眠らなければ、一日中眠いです
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby Hyperworm » Tue 02.24.2009 12:27 pm

I have doubts whether the first of those three is natural, but the last two sound good to me.
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby ss » Wed 02.25.2009 6:14 am

grodzixさん、TJPへようこそ。 はじめまして。

Sorry, I'm not a native English speaker, I don't quite get what you mean by >>> "I need too much sleep" meaning that I need to sleep much more than other people not to be tired during the day which is annoying.

As far as I can come out with, 〜すぎる can be used like this 寝すぎて体がだらけてしまった。----- Sleeping too much made me feel sluggish.

And, is "I need too much sleep" a very common saying? Can just say "I need more sleep or much sleep" instead?
I'm not sure '〜すぎる can be used like that as in "I need too much sleep" in English.

Not too sure if this sentence is correct, here is my attempt:
昼間、疲れないように、もっと睡眠が必要です。 (I need more sleep so as not to get tired in the day.)
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby keatonatron » Wed 02.25.2009 8:36 am

Hyperworm wrote:I have doubts whether the first of those three is natural, but the last two sound good to me.


Agreed. The thing which is "too much" is "need", not "sleep", so from what I can think of 眠りすぎる probably won't fit.

I doubt the concept of "need too much" even exists in Japanese. If you need more, then you obviously don't have too much.
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 02.25.2009 9:57 am

grodzix wrote:Hi everyone,

I've just learned about 〜すぎる thingy and I've tried to write "I need too much sleep" meaning that I need to sleep much more than other people not to be tired during the day which is annoying. What I've came up with is:
長く寝るのがいみすぎます。
and I'm not exactly sure whether it's correct. Help highly appreciated.


I'm thinking "I need too much sleep" is a translation error from teh OP's native tongue into English.. The explanation later of "I need to sleep much more than other people....." Makes it more clear that their intention is to say I need more rather than I need too much...
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby keatonatron » Wed 02.25.2009 11:08 am

I guess you could say something like 必要な睡眠時間が多すぎる.
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby wccrawford » Wed 02.25.2009 3:51 pm

"I need too much sleep" is hard to parse in English. It doesn't really express the whole concept. It doesn't surprise me that it's hard to translate into Japanese.

It's the same when trying to convert from Japanese to English: Many sentences need context before they make sense.
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby furrykef » Wed 02.25.2009 4:09 pm

Eh? It's as easy to parse as any sentence. Perhaps a bit difficult to fully interpret, but the parsing part is trivial. :)
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby Mike Cash » Wed 02.25.2009 4:47 pm

furrykef wrote:Eh? It's as easy to parse as any sentence. Perhaps a bit difficult to fully interpret, but the parsing part is trivial. :)


The parsing part is anything but trivial. Expressions which start out sloppily constructed in one language aren't going to suddenly become neat in another. "I need too much sleep", while understandable, is a poor construction. Attempting to 直訳 the thing into Japanese is bound to result in something awkward and unclear.

One of the good things about learning another language (well) is that it helps one to sift their thoughts a bit and come up with better renditions of what they're trying to say even in their original language.

It has already been pointed out that "I need too much sleep" means "I need to sleep much more than other people".

Start with something that more accurately represents the situation and it becomes easier to translate. It is necessary to translate the underlying concepts of the sentence, and not get bogged down in the direct translation of sloppily applied inaccurate verbiage. In fact, the ability to do that is the very essence of how one learns to directly produce utterances in the target language without having to translate everything back-n-forth in their heads during a conversation.

No, parsing is anything but trivial.

人より長く寝る
平均より長く寝る
睡眠時間が長い
etc etc etc

I think I've posted this little anecdote before, but it may be useful again. I was once helping a fellow study Japanese via a chatroom and he wanted to say, "If you will tell me what time your plane arrives I will go to the airport to pick you up."

His attempt was something like:
「もしもあなたが私にあなたの飛行機が何時に到着するかを教えてくれれば私が空港まで迎えに行ってあげます」

All that was actually necessary to say was:
「迎えは?」

The essence of that big long utterance he came up with was merely to find out whether the guy had a way from the airport or not. If he already has arrangements for that, then everything else in that question was superfluous.

Some would argue that it requires a larger degree of exposure to the target language to be able to boil all that crap down to one noun, one particle, and a question mark. That is part of it. The rest of it is learning how to get at the thought behind the words and not get trapped in the briar patch of poor wordings of the thought.

Parsing is not only not trivial, it is essential.
Last edited by Mike Cash on Wed 02.25.2009 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby Infidel » Wed 02.25.2009 4:57 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
Start with something that more accurately represents the situation and it becomes easier to translate.


I think the main problem here was the OP wanted to force the sugiru construction into the answer somewhere.
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby Mike Cash » Wed 02.25.2009 4:59 pm

Infidel wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:
Start with something that more accurately represents the situation and it becomes easier to translate.


I think the main problem here was the OP wanted to force the sugiru construction into the answer somewhere.


Or we could say that the problem was what I said it was, and forcing the sugiru construction was merely a manifestation of it.
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby kurisuto » Wed 02.25.2009 5:27 pm

Mr Cash, you may wish to review your penultimate post, I think you've actually helped someone (just kidding, I guess you frequently help people... at their expense :wink: ).
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 02.25.2009 5:29 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
Infidel wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:
Start with something that more accurately represents the situation and it becomes easier to translate.


I think the main problem here was the OP wanted to force the sugiru construction into the answer somewhere.


Or we could say that the problem was what I said it was, and forcing the sugiru construction was merely a manifestation of it.


I'm with Mike here. The OP was only trying to utilize a construction and was trying to do it from English and the English construction was out of sorts, so the whole construction was futile. I'm not saying the OP intended it to be that way, but that's what happened..
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Re: Trying to wrtie "I need too much sleep"

Postby Infidel » Wed 02.25.2009 5:35 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
Or we could say that the problem was what I said it was, and forcing the sugiru construction was merely a manifestation of it.


I can accept that.
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