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Causative + させなさい

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Causative + させなさい

Postby space_bubble » Fri 05.15.2009 1:33 pm

I searched Causative + させなさい before posting this, but couldn't find any messages I could understand.

In my workbook, I see instructions which end in Causative + させなさい, such as

次の文を完成させなさい。
「V(Causative)ていただけないでしょうか」を使って、次の会話を完成させなさい。
「よう」を使って、次の会話を完成させなさい。
etc.

I never saw Causative + させなさい in my first year, and I tried to research it online but doing so in English or ひらがな doesn't yield anything I can use.

I know ~なさい in passing (e.g. 「次の質問に答えなさい」), and a lot about ~てください. Now, as an early- to mid-intermediate learner, I would like to get some idea as to why they use Causative + させなさい.
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Re: Causative + させなさい

Postby Sairana » Fri 05.15.2009 1:45 pm

させなさい in all your examples is following a noun, not another causative verb...

In any case, ~なさい and ~てください are various forms of request. The use of  ~させなさい strikes me as more objective and sterile, as in the difference between:

Please fill in the blanks in these sentences.
vs
Fill in the blank.

I'm probably wrong, though...
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Re: Causative + させなさい

Postby NocturnalOcean » Fri 05.15.2009 2:08 pm

Well the reason for using させる with 完成 is because 完成する is intransitive. So to make it transitive you have to use させる。 Ex. 何々が完成した。  何々を完成させる。 

Also as you might have noticed in textbooks, test and so forth, ~なさい form is often used.
As a result you get something like this. Ex. 文を完成させなさい。
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Re: Causative + させなさい

Postby keatonatron » Fri 05.15.2009 10:43 pm

The answer is somewhere in the replies you've gotten, but I don't know how clear it is :P

First of all, なさい is just like てください. So I'm guessing your real problem is させ + なさい(てください).

完成する means to become complete. But in this case, you are not becoming complete, the sentence is becoming complete. And so, it is asking you to make the sentence become complete.

完成させる is the causative form, which means to "make" someone/thing else do the action. (Actually, させる is the causative form of the "special" verb する. Normal conjugations can be found here)

So, a simple 完成してください would mean "please become complete," and 完成させてください would mean "please make it [become] complete"

Just change てください to なさい and you have the sentence in question!

Let us know if you still have any problems!
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Re: Causative + させなさい

Postby space_bubble » Sat 05.16.2009 10:48 am

Sairana wrote:させなさい in all your examples is following a noun, not another causative verb...

In any case, ~なさい and ~てください are various forms of request. The use of  ~させなさい strikes me as more objective and sterile, as in the difference between:

Please fill in the blanks in these sentences.
vs
Fill in the blank.

That was my only real intuition about it at first. I appreciate your responding and giving me a further sense of this.
NocturnalOcean wrote:Well the reason for using させる with 完成 is because 完成する is intransitive. So to make it transitive you have to use させる。 Ex. 何々が完成した。  何々を完成させる。 

Also as you might have noticed in textbooks, test and so forth, ~なさい form is often used.
As a result you get something like this. Ex. 文を完成させなさい。

Thanks. The intransitivity of 完成する definitely hadn't crossed my mind. So, if I said この文を完成しなさい, not only would I be ungrammatical, I would be showing I was still a real newb. :shock:
Your information really unlocked the door to the answer that I hadn't been able to open, until now.
keatonatron wrote:The answer is somewhere in the replies you've gotten, but I don't know how clear it is :P

First of all, なさい is just like てください. So I'm guessing your real problem is させ + なさい(てください).

完成する means to become complete. But in this case, you are not becoming complete, the sentence is becoming complete. And so, it is asking you to make the sentence become complete.

完成させる is the causative form, which means to "make" someone/thing else do the action. (Actually, させる is the causative form of the "special" verb する. Normal conjugations can be found here)

So, a simple 完成してください would mean "please become complete," and 完成させてください would mean "please make it [become] complete"

Just change てください to なさい and you have the sentence in question!

Let us know if you still have any problems!

I will have more questions on other topics in the future, but with the excellent further clarification you have provided, I finally understand this させなさい. I appreciate your help.
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Re: Causative + させなさい

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 05.16.2009 11:36 am

space_bubble wrote:
Sairana wrote:Also as you might have noticed in textbooks, test and so forth, ~なさい form is often used.
As a result you get something like this. Ex. 文を完成させなさい。

Thanks. The intransitivity of 完成する definitely hadn't crossed my mind. So, if I said この文を完成しなさい, not only would I be ungrammatical, I would be showing I was still a real newb. :shock:


Unfortunately it's not quite that simple; 完成する can also be transitive. The Koujien gives two definitions, one intransitive (完全にできあがること) and one transitive (完全に仕上げること), and gives the example sentence 理論を完成する. Also there are a lot of hits for を完成する and を完成しなさい on google.
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Re: Causative + させなさい

Postby space_bubble » Sun 05.17.2009 2:07 am

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Unfortunately it's not quite that simple; 完成する can also be transitive. The Koujien gives two definitions, one intransitive (完全にできあがること) and one transitive (完全に仕上げること), and gives the example sentence 理論を完成する. Also there are a lot of hits for を完成する and を完成しなさい on google.

The information in this thread enabled me to resolve my immediate question regarding 完成させなさい. As an independent learner, it works best for me to work ad hoc, piecemeal, through to an understanding of new grammar structures that stump me initially, at least as best I can. Then when I'm totally lost, I ask in here. Your information, that 完成する can also be transitive, is very interesting, however. It's something I will keep in mind as I continue to learn. I appreciate that.
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