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Need help translating some simple sentences

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Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby totakeke » Wed 07.01.2009 4:12 am

My mom, knowing I enjoy studying Japanese, found a Japanese children's book at a yard sale, called きつねやまのよめいり. After some help from WWWJDIC, I translated this to "Fox Mountain Wedding"; I'm pretty sure that's correct, but I need some help with the book itself. I'm going to make an attempt to translate this myself (wish me luck :lol:).

しずかに ゆきが ふっています。
A quiet snow is falling. (Not sure about the "に".)

きつねやまにも ふっています。
Fox Mountain is falling, too. (Doesn't make much sense, but maybe it's symbolic? :))

きつねやまには、 きつねのうちが あります。
The fox family is on Fox Mountain. (Not 100% on this one, but it makes sense in the context of the story. :P)

おとうさんぎつねと
おかあさんぎつねと
ごひきの むすめのきつねが すんでいました。

Father fox and
mother fox and
? daughter's fox ?

That's all I can get. Any help is greatly appreciated. どうもありがとう。
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby Harisenbon » Wed 07.01.2009 4:36 am

I'm taking a break at work, so I'm just going to run through these quickly.

totakeke wrote:しずかに ゆきが ふっています。
A quiet snow is falling. (Not sure about the "に".)

に makes a noun into an adverb.
So, "The Snow was quietly falling." Note that while this is in present tense, when english speakers tell stories, it's usually in past tense, so I changed it for that.

きつねやまにも ふっています。
Fox Mountain is falling, too. (Doesn't make much sense, but maybe it's symbolic? :))

に is a location marker (in addition to other things) so this would be "Snow is also falling in Kitsune Moutain."
If they were saying that Fox Mountain was Falling, it would be きつねやまも
also ふっている means "precipitating" this is case, so a mountain couldn't precipitate. ;)

きつねやまには、 きつねのうちが あります。
The fox family is on Fox Mountain. (Not 100% on this one, but it makes sense in the context of the story. :P)

This is probably "Home" not "family"

おとうさんぎつねと
おかあさんぎつねと
ごひきの むすめのきつねが すんでいました。

Father fox and
mother fox and
? daughter's fox ?

A father fox, a mother fox and 5 daughter foxes live there.
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby totakeke » Wed 07.01.2009 5:06 am

Thanks for the help, especially with the last one. I was looking at ご and ひき as one word, not two. :)
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby Kakads » Wed 07.01.2009 5:48 am

totakeke wrote:Thanks for the help, especially with the last one. I was looking at ご and ひき as one word, not two. :)


Technically it is one word, as it is the counter for small animals.
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby totakeke » Wed 07.01.2009 2:35 pm

Another question. In the very last line, shouldn't the counter come after "daughter foxes", not before? (I'm not sure; I was looking up stuff about counters.)
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby Harisenbon » Wed 07.01.2009 7:42 pm

totakeke wrote:Another question. In the very last line, shouldn't the counter come after "daughter foxes", not before? (I'm not sure; I was looking up stuff about counters.)


Counters come in two fashions
Before, with a 「の」 connecting them: ごひき むすめのきつね
or after, with nothing: むすめのきつね ごひき

But usually in stories and explanations, I think the prior is more common.
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby totakeke » Wed 07.01.2009 10:26 pm

Thanks.

I took a crack at the next page if anyone's willing to help. :)

やまは きっしろになりました。
Not sure. All I know is that “やま” means “mountain”, “しろ” means “white”, and that “なりました” probably means “became”.

こんやは きつねやまの よめいりです。
Today there is a wedding on Fox Mountain. (Probably mostly correct, but I did skip some particles. :))

いちばんめの きつねが、およめにいくのです。
No idea. “いちばん” could be “first”, “きつね” means “fox”, “およめ” could be “bride”, and “です” is “is”.

ならんだ ちょうちんが、あかるくみえます。
“ちょうちん” probably means “paper lantern” and “あかる” probably means “to burn brightly”. (I say "probably" because I used WWWJDIC to translate the words I didn't know.)

やまの きつねたちが、
The mountain’s foxes,

おいわいに あつまってきたのです。
were gathering in the north.
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby keatonatron » Wed 07.01.2009 11:21 pm

totakeke wrote:Thanks.
やまは きっしろになりました。
Not sure. All I know is that “やま” means “mountain”, “しろ” means “white”, and that “なりました” probably means “became”.


Check your book again. Are you sure it isn't まっしろ? :wink:
Your other knowledge is all correct!

こんやは きつねやまの よめいりです。
Today there is a wedding on Fox Mountain. (Probably mostly correct, but I did skip some particles. :))


Good enough. "Tonight is Fox Mountain's wedding." (not that the mountain is getting married... your translation is more natural, this one is more literal)

いちばんめの きつねが、およめにいくのです。
No idea. “いちばん” could be “first”, “きつね” means “fox”, “およめ” could be “bride”, and “です” is “is”.


いちばん means "number one". いちばんめ means "the first [one]".

There is no kanji so I'm not positive what it means, but can you figure it out if it was いちばんめの きつねが およめに いく?

ならんだ ちょうちんが、あかるくみえます。
“ちょうちん” probably means “paper lantern” and “あかる” probably means “to burn brightly”. (I say "probably" because I used WWWJDIC to translate the words I didn't know.)


It's not あかる. It's あかるく, which is the adverb form of あかるい.
The verb in this sentence is みえる.

やまの きつねたちが、
The mountain’s foxes,

おいわいに あつまってきたのです。
were gathering in the north.


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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 07.01.2009 11:32 pm

keatonatron wrote:
totakeke wrote:Thanks.

いちばんめの きつねが、およめにいくのです。
No idea. “いちばん” could be “first”, “きつね” means “fox”, “およめ” could be “bride”, and “です” is “is”.


いちばん means "number one". いちばんめ means "the first [one]".

There is no kanji so I'm not positive what it means, but can you figure it out if it was いちばんめの きつねが およめに いく?


一番目の狐が、お嫁に行くのです seems the only possibility to me.
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby Harisenbon » Wed 07.01.2009 11:33 pm

keatonatron wrote:keyboard jUst broke, typing by mouse  now

:shock: 御苦労さま!
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby totakeke » Wed 07.01.2009 11:45 pm

Check your book again. Are you sure it isn't まっしろ? :wink:


You're right, it is まっしろ。 :D
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby keatonatron » Thu 07.02.2009 12:00 am

totakeke wrote:やまの きつねたちが、
The mountain’s foxes,

おいわいに あつまってきたのです。
were gathering in the north.


And I'm back!

It looks to me like you're doing a lot of translating by gut feeling and context, instead of actually following real grammar.
Here, おいわい doesn't enter into your sentence at all... And if you keep in mind simple grammar rules, you would know that a noun can't follow the て form (あつまって), so this きた can't be the 北 (north) that you are thinking of.

Here are some things I would suggest you read, from Tae Kim's guide to Japanese grammar:

Noun related particles (including の): http://www.guidetojapanese.org/particles3.html
Adverbs! http://www.guidetojapanese.org/adgobi.html
Other uses of the te-form: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/enduring.html

Actually, I would suggest to anyone that they read all of Tae Kim's site, from beginning to end, before attempting any translation. Once you've completed Tae Kim's guide, and remember it, all you need is a dictionary to tackle any basic Japanese sentences.
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby totakeke » Thu 07.02.2009 12:15 am

I'll admit, I have kind of been going on instinct rather than grammar. :) I haven't studied Japanese grammar in a while and I've gotten a little rusty. But I will look over Tae Kim's guide. (I've read some of it before, it's very thorough.)
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby keatonatron » Thu 07.02.2009 3:00 am

totakeke wrote:I'll admit, I have kind of been going on instinct rather than grammar.


Unfortunately, that method won't teach you anything :?
If you just want to have fun exploring a book in a foreign language it's fine, but if you actually want to improve I wouldn't recommend it.
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Re: Need help translating some simple sentences

Postby totakeke » Thu 07.02.2009 10:54 pm

keatonatron wrote:
totakeke wrote:I'll admit, I have kind of been going on instinct rather than grammar.


Unfortunately, that method won't teach you anything :?
If you just want to have fun exploring a book in a foreign language it's fine, but if you actually want to improve I wouldn't recommend it.


Well, I was trying to use grammar (the grammar that I knew) and the rest of it was just fill in the blanks. :)
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