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please check these sentences

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Re: please check these sentences

Postby astaroth » Fri 08.14.2009 2:29 pm

becki_kanou wrote:In everyday speech V~たい is fine for asking questions about what others want to do, although V~たがる is also OK, and is to be preferred in formal or written contexts.

I don't know Vたがる construction. Could anyone explain it a bit for me? Thanks.
Is Vた the past form of the verb V? That is, in that example would it be なったがる?
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Re: please check these sentences

Postby NocturnalOcean » Fri 08.14.2009 4:13 pm

astaroth wrote:
becki_kanou wrote:In everyday speech V~たい is fine for asking questions about what others want to do, although V~たがる is also OK, and is to be preferred in formal or written contexts.

I don't know Vたがる construction. Could anyone explain it a bit for me? Thanks.
Is Vた the past form of the verb V? That is, in that example would it be なったがる?


It is used for expressing other people showing signs of desire. た is from たい I believe.

I think you will pretty much see it as たがっている. Also this construction takes を not が.

田中さんは車を買いたがっている。

This is usual construction when referring to 3rd person. However, when in past tense, quoting, explanatory situations, or conjectures(i.e rashii) -tai can be used.
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Re: please check these sentences

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 08.14.2009 4:16 pm

astaroth wrote:
becki_kanou wrote:In everyday speech V~たい is fine for asking questions about what others want to do, although V~たがる is also OK, and is to be preferred in formal or written contexts.

I don't know Vたがる construction. Could anyone explain it a bit for me? Thanks.
Is Vた the past form of the verb V? That is, in that example would it be なったがる?



I was going to explain it but found this instead.. It explains it better than I can.

http://www.matsu-kaze.net/mk/doushi/?list=desire

-たい, -たがる (-tai, -tagaru, desire form)
The -たい form is used to convey a desire to do the verb it is modifying. To make the -たい form of a group 1 verb, just add -たい to the verb base. To make the -たい form of a group 2 verb, use the "i" formative and add -たい. The -たい form conjugates like an -い adjective, so the -ます form is not used. Instead simply add です to make it polite:

Hmm and that still didn't work.. ok

Vtai is for yourself and Vtagaru is for someone else..

http://tangorin.com/words/%E3%81%9F%E3%81%8C%E3%82%8B

It's similar to the ~ほしい / ~ほしがる grammar principle

http://www.yookoso.com/pages/study.php? ... &pagenum=6
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Re: please check these sentences

Postby phreadom » Fri 08.14.2009 6:01 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Indeed, you can even see this on the thread -- "most favorite" gets responses ranging from "fine with me" to "illiterate" (which I don't quite understand; what does it mean for an expression to be "illiterate"? I'm pretty sure I'm not illiterate, and I use that expression).


il⋅lit⋅er⋅ate
–adjective
1. unable to read and write: an illiterate group.
2. having or demonstrating very little or no education.
3. showing lack of culture, esp. in language and literature.
4. displaying a marked lack of knowledge in a particular field: He is musically illiterate.
–noun
5. an illiterate person.

My point was that it sounds like a word/phrase an uneducated person would use much like "irregardless" simply because they heard someone else say it and thought it sounded neat. This could easily devolve into a descriptivist versus prescriptivist argument... :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription

I tend to be a prescriptivist, and a bit of a snooty one at times unfortunately... and I think that might actually be a bad thing on my part... kind of like an old man grumbling about the newfangled gadgets and slang of youth, but as we know, the inexorable march of time evolves both cultures and languages, otherwise we'd all still be wearing clothes vastly differently than today and speaking something probably unintelligible to us today.

I think the best route is a sound anchor in prescriptivism, with a healthy dash of descriptivism sprinkled in to allow the growth of the language. Too liberal a dose of descriptivism and the structure of the language breaks down and you're left having to learn everything by rote as there is no definite logical structure left. When you can just start saying whatever you want and expecting people to have to learn what you mean to understand you because you're breaking the "conventional rules", then the purpose of language itself is defeated... namely that of transmitting information between people as effectively and accurately as possible. The more you arbitrarily alter that structure, the narrower your target audience becomes, and the less effective and accurate the language becomes.

(is this hijacking the thread a bit?) :(
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Re: please check these sentences

Postby coco » Fri 08.14.2009 6:20 pm

シモンくんは何になりたいですか。What does Simon want to do?(occupation)


I think Simon would be "you", the person who the speaker is talking to, in this Japanese context.

シモン/サイモンくんは、何になりたいですか。 would be;
"What do you want to be when you grow-up, Simon?" (?)

If Simon isn't a person who the speaker is talking to ( Simon is "He"),the Japanese sentence would be something like:
シ(サイ)モンくんは何になりたいと言っていましたか。 
シ(サイ)モンくんは何になりたいと思っているようですか。
マネージャーになりたいと言います。He says he wants to be a manager.

言います in this context doesn't sound natural to me.
(彼は)マネージャーになりたいと言っていました。 or
(彼は)マネージャーになりたいと言っています。
would be better.
-----
Nostrum wrote:I suggest you use a site called lang-8 for corrections, on that site you have native speakers correct your sentences. Native speakers' corrections would be better than any people on this English forum's.

Nostrum wrote:In this game called internet forums, the only way to win is not to play...

I was just wondering: If that's the case, why did you join TJP? :?
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