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永遠の歌姫

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永遠の歌姫

Postby snmcrae » Sat 06.19.2010 4:20 pm

I'm reading the first volume of the mangafication of レイトン教授と永遠の歌姫. Generally it's easy to follow. There are a few things I can't quite get, though.

1. 私は今,とても不思議な出来事にあい混乱しています。
I don't know what the にあい means here. Overall, I would translate this as "Currently I'm baffled by a very strange (or wondrous) happening." I'm not sure how the meaning would change by taking out the あい.

2. この世の奇跡を手に入れようと言うのですからそのぐらいの覚悟はおありかと。。。
There is some nuance at the end of the sentence there that I don't understand. This line is delivered by a mysterious emcee. Just before this, he has announced that the audience will all participate in a game where the winner will receive eternal life, and the losers will all have to offer up their lives to him. I read this as "You have all said that you want to attain the wonders of this world, so you need to be prepared for this kind of thing..." But, really, I'm just pulling that last bit out of my arse.

3. 光栄だわ。富豪の夫亡き後も社交界の華のレデイに知っていてもらえたとは。
"It's an honor to meet you. Even after the death of your wealthy husband, you were known as a splendid lady of high society (or: you were made known to me by high society ladies) (or: you were known by high society ladies)." The whole verb-てもらえる construction bewilders me. I have only the most tenuous of grasps on the following items:
*Y ni X-te morau = "I had Y do X for me" or "Y did X for me"
*Y ni X-te moraeru = ???
*Y ni X-te itadaku = "I humbly had Y do the favor of X for me" or "Y graciously did X for me"
*Y ni X-te itadakeru = ???

Those are the points in the first 2 chapters that I had troubles with.
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Re: 永遠の歌姫

Postby NileCat » Sun 06.20.2010 8:45 am

1. 出来事 + に + 合い
あう(合う) means "to encounter" here.

2. おありかと=お有りかと
お(honorific prefix) + ある(is/have/exist)
+ かと (I guess/I suppose)

3. (あなたに)(私のことを)知っていてもらえた、とは。
Meaning-wise;
I'm honored that you, who is a splendid lady of high society even after the death of wealthy husband, have known me.
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Re: 永遠の歌姫

Postby snmcrae » Tue 06.22.2010 12:46 am

Nile cat, thanks so much for your clarifications! I'm much obliged...

1. Oh, I see. Using the -masu stem instead of the -te form to connect the clauses. Is that common? Or, is it just used in certain fixed expressions? And, would writing the sentence as 私は今,とても不思議な出来事に合って混乱しています。be equally valid?

2. Again with the -masu stem throwing me off! New reading, then: "Since you've all said that you want to attain the wonders of this world, I presume you are ready for such an eventuality as this."

3. I think I get it. Could a more idiomatic way of putting it in English be : "I'm honored that you, a splendid lady of high society even after the death of your wealthy husband, know who I am."? For some reason, "have known me" sounds strange, though I might still be missing something there. In addition, I now realize that the whole thing has been inverted, and the predicate is first and the subject last! I hadn't seen that at first. Putting it standard way 'round, I guess it would be : 富豪の夫亡き後も社交界の華のレデイに知っていてもらえたとは光栄だわ. I think.

If anyone could enlighten me on the difference between -te morau and -te moraeru (and -te itadaku/-te itadakeru)...

Thanks again, Nile cat.
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Re: 永遠の歌姫

Postby NileCat » Tue 06.22.2010 6:34 am

1. I think that is very common. And the -tte form in your example sonds totally natural.
But, sorry, taking a second look, the kanji I used doesn't seem very natural in this sentence for some reason. Not totally wrong though.
We have quite a few kanjis for it.
不思議な出来事にあって(あい)混乱しています
不思議な出来事に逢って(逢い)混乱しています
不思議な出来事に会って(会い)混乱しています
不思議な出来事に合って(合い)混乱しています
不思議な出来事に遭って(遭い)混乱しています
I don't know if one(s) of them is(are) TOTALLY WRONG. But we use them all.
Please look it up in a proper dictionary if you want to be accurate. Or use hiragana. :whistle:

2. I know ある or ます are tough for you. Just like "be" or "have" are tough for me. :)

3. Thnaks for your correction. And your understanding is right.

4. -te morau + can = -te moraeru
-te itadaku + can = -te itadakeru
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Re: 永遠の歌姫

Postby Hyperworm » Tue 06.22.2010 11:34 am

Hm, I would have interpreted two of those differently :?
It's completely possible I'm reading it wrong, but...

In「富豪の夫亡き後も社交界の華のレデイに・・・」, I'm tempted to read it as 「富豪の夫亡き後も~知っていてもらえたとは」
Is it possible that the speaker may have been the one to lose her husband? The reading
"I'm honored that even after the death of my wealthy husband, I am still recognized by the ladies of high society (such as you)"
makes more sense to me...

Also, for (2), I would read あり as the あり in 「そんなことありかよ!」「愛と戦争じゃ何でもありさ」, which would be more like
"I would say that it would be fair to expect that level of resolve from you..."
rather than
"I would have thought that you have that level of resolve..."

Are either of those possible?
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
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Re: 永遠の歌姫

Postby NileCat » Tue 06.22.2010 12:19 pm

Hyperworm wrote:Hm, I would have interpreted two of those differently :?
It's completely possible I'm reading it wrong, but...

In「富豪の夫亡き後も社交界の華のレデイに・・・」, I'm tempted to read it as 「富豪の夫亡き後も~知っていてもらえたとは」
Is it possible that the speaker may have been the one to lose her husband? The reading
"I'm honored that even after the death of my wealthy husband, I am still recognized by the ladies of high society (such as you)"
makes more sense to me...


That's possible. That might be the correct answer accrding to the context.
Neverthless, :? that seems to be a matter of logic to me.
If I want to convey the meaning, I would phrase it like,
富豪の夫亡き後も、社交界の華のレディに覚えていて頂けたとは。
( not 知って/ with a comma )
Because, if that was MY husband, I naturally once was an important member of the high society and the listener should have known about me.
So my "instinct" tells me that the husband has to be the listner's.
:whistle:

EDIT:
Sorry, I forgot to mention about (2).
Maybe I don't get the meaning of your English sentences. :blush:
But in terms of the original question, "覚悟がある" is a kind of idiom.
覚悟はある?
覚悟はありますか?
覚悟はおありですか?
覚悟はおあり?
Is this answering to your question?

EDIT2:
If the speaker goes on, he would say like this,
そのぐらいの覚悟はおありかと思われますが、まさかそこまでの覚悟はないなどとおっしゃるわけではないでしょうね、いかがですか?
( Sorry for the wordy sentence. But the deferential cynicism is here.)
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