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a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

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a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby phreadom » Thu 06.30.2011 5:40 pm

A friend showed me this link today...

http://friendda.org/

(a play on the idea of the NDA (Non-disclosure_agreement))

I got a bit of a laugh out of it, and noticed at the bottom that they were working on translations...

http://translatefriendda.wikispaces.com/

And I noticed that there was no Japanese version even being worked on currently. So I wondered if it might be a fun project to work on here, given that not only would it be tricky to translate into Japanese while retaining the same sense of humor, but it might also be tricky for Japanese people to understand the humor in the original, so it might be a fun project from both directions. :)

I know it's a bit geek oriented, but I thought I'd throw it out there. :mrgreen:

Here is the original for us to work from:

FriendDA

This agreement is entered into this ___ day of ___ 20__ by and between _____________ (hereinafter "The Advisor") and _____________ (hereinafter "The Keeper of the Idea" or "I") regarding information The Keeper of The Idea is choosing to share with The Advisor (hereinafter "The Idea").

WHEREAS I possess a bright idea that I am choosing to disclose to you, The Advisor, with the mutual understanding that you are my friend and that you will not screw me.

Manners of screwing include, but are not limited to:

  1. Adapting some or all of The Idea for your own purposes.
  2. Choosing to share some or all of The Idea with those who are not bound to this agreement.
  3. Failing to do your best to protect The Idea.
This is a "warm blanket" agreement with which, by requesting your agreement to it, I am helping myself sleep at night by placing a small amount of formality on the sharing of The Idea. I believe The Idea will only improve as a result of having solicited your honest and clear feedback.

Term

The term of this agreement shall continue until The Idea is no longer confidential.

Breach

This agreement has absolutely no legal binding. However, upon breach or violation of the agreement, I will feel free to do any of the following:

  1. Curse you under my breath.
  2. Publicly disclose the manner of your screw-i-tude.
  3. Write about your transgressions in ALL CAPS.
  4. No longer consider you a person with whom I can share my ideas.

Sharing

Sharing of some or all of The Idea with third parties may occur provided that you have cleared this with me and the third parties agree to the principles of the FriendDA.

Termination

Termination of this FriendDA can be executed by either party, but don't be a douche.

You are acknowledging and agreeing to this disclosure by reading it. If you find any part of this agreement uncomfortable or confusing, don't sweat it. We'll talk about something else.
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby Ongakuka » Thu 06.30.2011 6:08 pm

Let's do it.

Should we work on it together on this thread?
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby phreadom » Thu 06.30.2011 7:52 pm

Ongakuka wrote:Let's do it.

Should we work on it together on this thread?


I think that would work out the best. :)

Should we tackle a section at a time or something? And maybe keep an updated version of the translation thus far in the opening post or something? :think:
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby Ongakuka » Thu 06.30.2011 8:01 pm

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking :D

I don't know alot about this site, perhaps somebody has already asked a group of native speakers to translate the site?? In any case its still an exercise worth tackling, and we have native speakers too (like Nilecatさん) to help us get it right
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby NileCat » Sat 07.02.2011 5:04 pm

I'm glad if I can be helpful for you. :)
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby Ongakuka » Sat 07.02.2011 7:02 pm

structure-wise I don't imagine there will be too many difficulties. However, problematic for me is finding the right words, since my vocabulary is pretty poor, and I'm not used to dealing with things like treatise and formal documents in Japanese.

For 'Agreement' I did a search of words, and my favourite was 合意 , and then later we discussed it briefly in chat and arucardさん suggested 協約書 which is a word I am unfamiliar with but judging by the Kanji I think it ought to fit this context well. What do you think?

The verb for the first part is 'entered,' so I figure a word with 入 might be appropriate, but also a word meaning 'established' could also work. I'm thinking something with 定, to 'set.'

As for 'Advisor' and 'Keeper,' I thought it would be amusing for them to have their names in katakana (for example, ザ・アドバイザー) since this adds emphasis and makes it more clear that their role is significant. However, 相談役 or something could be an alternative for 'Advisor' (I was sure the spelling is 'adviser...') ... unfortunately I haven't a clue how to translate 'Keeper' into Japanese but I'll look into it.

In the meantime, please offer any suggestions and criticise/agree with what I already suggested. :)
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby NileCat » Sat 07.02.2011 7:15 pm

Maybe, someone is encouraged to post his/her draft here, at least a couple of sentences.
As you might suppose, this kind of "official format" requires tons of uncommon technical terms and expressions we never use in our daily life. So, mistakes are welcome. And I personally believe that it might be a helpful lesson for those who have a desire to work in a Japanese company in the future. Let's have fun! :)
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby Ongakuka » Sat 07.02.2011 7:51 pm

Ok, its not much, I don't mind attempting a larger chunk later but I hope that everyone will join in

今日の_日_月_年に成立されたこの条約は、__(以下、「ザ・アドバイザ)と__(以下、「ザ・キーパーか私)
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby NileCat » Sun 07.03.2011 11:14 am

条約 is usually used for an agreement between two nations. That’s not always true but 条約 has a strong nuance as ‘a treaty between the countries’. So, I think 契約 sounds better in this case.
以下~ looks fine for ‘hereinafter’, however, if you want to make it look like a very proper contract, ‘以下、~と称する’ would sound better.
We don’t use the word 今日 in this kind of official paper. We use 本日 instead. Nevertheless, on this paper, since the official date is stated, the good phrase for it would be:
○月○日を以て
(This is ‘もって’ which means ‘as of’.)
Advisor would be アドバイザー or 相談役. ザ・アドバイザー makes sense, however, in Japanese, it should be ジ・アドバイザー. You prefer Kanji here?
Keeper of the Idea would be…well… An option for it would be ‘アイデアの(権利)保有者’.
To be honest, I’m not so sure how much we should make it stately. As you might suppose, this original English writing is kind of difficult for me to understand.:) The first word popped up in my mind was 知的権利保有者. But it doesn’t seem a faithful translation. The literal translation would be 発想保有者, though…

成立された sounds off.
We usually use a verb 締結する for the noun 契約.
In short, the edited version of YOUR sentence might be like this:

本契約は、○月○日を以て、○(以下、アドバイザーと称する)と○(以下、アイデア保有者と称する)との間で締結されるものである。

Do you see the tone?

Well, I think my task here is just to explain about the possible technical terms. So, I will never translate a sentence by myself. Enjoy composing sentences! You don’t need to hesitate. You don’t need to worry about making mistakes. I’ll try to be helpful as much as I can for you challengers!
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby Ongakuka » Tue 07.05.2011 3:18 pm

Thank you Nilecatさん, sorry I was not able to reply earlier. It seems you are the only person with the linguistic abilities to translate this site correctly! But I will carry on since you are kind enough to make corrections and offer advise.

I would like to ask more about 成立 - is the meaning roughly appropriate but wrong usage? Or, if it is completely the wrong word, please could you explain why it doesn't fit to me as I have clearly got the wrong definition in my head :blush:

Interesting point about ジ・アドバイザー - as I never noticed before, that depending on the following word, 'the' can be pronounced like ザ or ジ

I will study the other vocab and hopefully get onto translating more soon. (I have to study for some boring exam as well :( )
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby NileCat » Tue 07.05.2011 4:26 pm

I think it is a very good question, Ongakuka-san.
Your choice was not wrong grammatically, however, I thought it was not appropriate in this case. Let me explain why.

A) We simply don’t use it in this kind of contractual documents as a custom.
B) 成立された条約 is wrong. 成立した条約 is right.
C) 成立 usually has a nuance that it is a successful result.
e.g.1) 日米間の条約が成立した (The treaty between Japan and US has been established)
It describes the result of a “success or failure” situation. There WAS a possibility that it ends up in failure. It sounds totally fine if newscasters use this expression as a "good news". But the official document doesn’t use this word. Instead, they would use “条約を締結する”, because those official documents conventionally avoid “subjective” nuances.
e.g.2) 賃貸契約が成立したので正式な契約書を交わした (Since the rental agreement has been concluded, they signed the official document) (Yes, I know this sounds weird but this sentence is fine in Japanese)

So, we don’t use this word on the official contract paper. If we use it on them, it would be like this:
A及びBは、以下の契約が成立したことに同意する。
If you add the second verb to reduce the subjective nuance like this, it is to be considerd proper.

This is, well, you know, a law-school-level subject, though. :)


EDIT:
I found an example. I personally find it fun, though... :shock:

売買契約書

委託者○○○○○(以下「甲」という)と受託者□□□□□(以下「乙」という)とは、別 紙記載の商品(以下「商品」という)の売買に関し、以下のとおり契約を締結する。

(目的)
第1条  甲は、商品を乙に売り渡し、乙はこれを甲から買い受ける。
(仕様)
第2条  商品の仕様は別 紙に定めるとおりとする。
(売買代金)
第3条  商品の売買代金は、○○○,○○○円とする。
(支払方法)
第4条  乙は、商品受領後○○日以内に甲指定の口座に振込みにて代金を支払う。
2  前項の規定において、商品納入時の検品において直ちに不合格が判明した場合には、商品を修正した上で再納品に要する日数を支払期限に加算するものとする。

(商品の引き渡しおよび検収)
第5条  甲は、乙指定の場所に○○年○○月○○日に商品を納品する。乙は納品後直ちに(または○日以内に)検収を行なう。
2  前項の検収の結果、商品が不合格となった場合は、乙が指定する期間内に甲は乙の指示に従って修正し、再検収を受けなければならない。
(瑕疵補修)
第6条  商品の引き渡し日から○年間は、甲は乙に対して商品の瑕疵に関する一切の責任を負うものとし、補修に関する費用は甲が負担するものとする。
2  前項の規定は、乙が商品を第三者に転売したときには適用しない。
(商品の修理・交換)
第7条  商品が事前に指定した仕様と異なるときは、甲は商品を無償で修理、交換しなくてはならない
(報告・調査)
第8条  商品の使用によりトラブルが発生したときは、乙はただちに甲に報告し、甲は原因の究明に努め、甲は調査結果 を随時乙に報告するものとする。その場合の調査費用は甲の負担とする。
2  前項の規定は、乙が商品を第三者に転売したのちに発生したトラブルについても適用される。
3
 乙が商品を第三者に転売したのちに商品にトラブルが発生した場合の回収費用については、甲乙協議の上その都度定める。
(機密の保持)
第9条  甲及び乙は本契約の遂行において得た商品に関する技術情報、および双方の営業情報、顧客情報、ノウハウを他にもらしてはならない。
2  前項の規定には、以下は含まない。
(1) 既に公知の情報
(2) 契約締結以前に双方が得ていた情報
(3)法律、法令により開示を義務付けられた情報
(4)安全、衛生等の理由により機密情報から除かれることを 甲乙協議の上確認した事項
(5)甲及び乙が機密情報から除くことを相互に同意確認した情報
(契約内容の変更)
第10条  天災その他の不可抗力、又はその他、甲の責に帰すことができない理由により期間内に業務を完了することができないときは、乙は甲に対して遅滞なくその理由を明らかにした書面 により納期の延期をもとめることができる。この場合の延長日数は、甲乙協議の上書面 によりこれを定める。
2  乙は、必要があるときは、商品の仕様または数量 等を変更することができる。この場合において、納品日または売買代金を変更する必要があるときは、甲乙協議の上、書面 によりこれを定める。
3  前項において、甲が損害を受けた時は、乙はその損害を保証しなければならない。この場合における賠償額は、甲乙協議の上、書面 によりこれを定める。
(契約の解除)
第11条  甲が○○○○したときは、乙はただちに本契約を解除できるものとする。
2  前項において、乙は甲に書面 によりこれを知らせる。
3  乙がその責に帰すべき理由により、業務委託料の支払いが遅れた場合においては、乙は遅延日数に応じ、○○○○の割合を乗じて計算した額の利息を甲に請求することができる。
(専属的合意管轄裁判所)
第12条  本契約について訴訟の必要が生じた場合には、○○○地方裁判所を専属的合意管轄裁判所とする
(その他)
第11条  本契約は、日本国法に準じて解釈される。
2 この契約書に定めのない事項については甲乙協議の上これを定める。
 
 本契約の証として本書2通 を作成し、当事者記名押印の上、各自一通 を保有するものとする。
平成○○年○○月○○日
  甲 住所  
  氏名 印
     
乙 住所  
  氏名 印


業務委託契約書 収入
印紙


委託者○○○○○(以下「甲」という)と受託者□□□□□(以下「乙」という)とは、以下のとおり×××××業務委託に関する契約を締結する。

1.委託業務の名称  
2.業務場所  
3.委託期間 (※「履行期間」とする書き方もあります)
4.委託料 ¥
  [うち取引に係る消費税および地方消費税の額 ¥     ]
5.委託料の支払方法 (※「業務委託料支払の時期」とする書き方もあります。例えば毎月等の支払いの場合には、支払いの時期及び金額の内訳を記載します)
6.契約保証金 (記載例:「免除とする。但し、契約を履行できなかった場合は、請負代金の○○分の○○に相当する額を納入するものとする」など)
   
 上記の委託契約について、委託者と受託者は次の条項により、委託契約を締結し、信義に従って誠実にこれを履行するものとする。
 この契約の証として本書2通を作成し、当事者記名押印の上、各自一通 を保有するものとする。
平成○○年○○月○○日
  甲 住所  
  氏名 印
     
乙 住所  
  氏名 印

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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby Ongakuka » Tue 07.05.2011 5:28 pm

Wow! Thanks Nilecatさん。 I definitely want to keep trying at this, see if we can come up with the best version. However, it is indeed very complicated, as you say, so it might take some time.

(Yes, I know this sounds weird but this sentence is fine in Japanese)


I'm not used to 'legal/official' stuff but that sentence sounded quite normal to me in English too :think:

Maybe by tomorrow I'll have some more suggestions but I'll try to be more humorous this time, since that's what its all about ^^
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby Hyperworm » Tue 07.05.2011 5:33 pm

This agreement is entered into this ___ day of ___ 20__ by and between _____________ (hereinafter "The Advisor") and _____________ (hereinafter "The Keeper of the Idea" or "I") regarding information The Keeper of The Idea is choosing to share with The Advisor (hereinafter "The Idea").

本契約は、20__年__月__日を以て、______(以下、「アドバイザー」と称する)と______(以下、「アイデア保有者」か「俺※」と称する)との間で締結され、アイデア保有者がアドバイザーに話すことに決めた情報に関連したものである。

(※ここで「俺」というふざけた代名詞が出たら、「これ明らかに変だ」という印象が残り、かえっていいと思います。でも女性には適用しない・・・)

WHEREAS I possess a bright idea that I am choosing to disclose to you, The Advisor, with the mutual understanding that you are my friend and that you will not screw me.

俺は、アドバイザーのお前が俺の友であり俺を裏切ることは絶対にない、という相互理解の上で、お前に開示することに決めたとんでもアイデア※を所有する。

(※この言葉を使いたかっただけですw 適切じゃないかもしれません・・・)
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Re: a fun project to translate the FriendDA?

Postby NileCat » Tue 07.05.2011 10:48 pm

Brilliant! :bow:
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