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後悔させるぐらい

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後悔させるぐらい

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Tue 11.27.2012 7:36 pm

「それに後悔させるぐらい、甘えていいんだよね?」

Context: Conversation between two people who very recently became a couple.
F「それとも……抱きしめる理由がないとダメ……かな?」
M「そんな不安そうな顔をしなくても大丈夫だ……理由ならちゃんとあるから」
F「……え? そうなの?」
M「俺たちは恋人同士なんだ。抱きしめる理由なんて、それで十分だろう?」
F「そっか……そうだね、うん」
F「それに後悔させるぐらい、甘えていいんだよね?」

I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around the last line.

「それに後悔させるぐらい、甘えていいんだよね?」
And also, you'll spoil me to the point of regretting it right?

I'm sort of confused, maybe because the speech is so direct, but is that the correct way to interpret it?
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby Ongakuka » Wed 11.28.2012 3:52 am

後悔させる make someone regret

甘える sweeten up to, be needy and childlike and wanting attention

You should think about who it is doing the 後悔させる and who it is doing the 甘える :)
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Wed 11.28.2012 4:20 am

Well what I thought was the man would 甘えてher to the point he begins to 後悔, thus my translation attempt.

Is that wrong?
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby Ongakuka » Wed 11.28.2012 4:29 am

それ(What the guy just said about 'reason to hug')に(あなたを)後悔させるぐらい(私が)甘えていいんだよね?
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Wed 11.28.2012 4:10 pm

Ongakuka wrote:それ(What the guy just said about 'reason to hug')に(あなたを)後悔させるぐらい(私が)甘えていいんだよね?


Ah I see, それ was in reference to the 恋人 part. So is it more like:

"It's okay to make you spoil me to the point of regretting calling us lovers, right?"
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby Ranja » Thu 11.29.2012 2:14 am

What the それに means in that sentence is ambiguous to me. More context might be needed.
It seems to me that here it simply means 'also', 'moreover', or something.

「それに、(あたなを)後悔させるぐらい、(わたしはあなたに)甘えていいんだよね?」

The general meaning of 「甘え」 is very difficult to translate.

From the description of the book "甘えの構造":
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%80%8C%E7%94 ... 371&sr=8-1

「甘え」は日本人の日常生活にしばしば見られる感情だが、著者は外国にはそれに対応する適切な語彙がないことに気づいた。そんな自身のカルチャーショックから洞察を重ね、フロイトの精神分析、ベネディクトの『菊と刀』、サピア・ウォーフの文化言語論などを比較検討し、「甘え」理論を構築、人間心理の本質を丹念に追究した。
「甘え」は「つきはなされてしまうことを否定し、接近欲求を含み、分離する感情を別のよりよい方法で解決しようとすること」と定義される。


In your case, I think(あなたに)甘える might be interpreted as "(Can I) lean against you" in a metaphorical sense.
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Thu 11.29.2012 3:16 am

Further context: Earlier she said she wanted to spend more time together, but the guy said they couldn't because they would be late for school (emphasizing this as the reason why). So she asks for a hug instead, leading into her asking if they need a reason to hug.

The lines immediately after from my initial post:

M「男に二言はない」
F「それじゃ……お願い♪」
(Hug)

---

@Ranja, would you say then that it would be translated as:

「それに、(あたなを)後悔させるぐらい、(わたしはあなたに)甘えていいんだよね?」
Also, to the point of making you regret it, can I lean/depend/rely on you?

---

Also, trying to translate the definition of 甘え you quoted there is a bit difficult for me:

「つきはなされてしまうことを否定し、接近欲求を含み、分離する感情を別のよりよい方法で解決しようとすること」
To deny refusal, to contain the desire to become closer,using these different feelings separately to head in a better direction and resolve problems.

I think I'm just more confused now lol.
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby Ongakuka » Thu 11.29.2012 4:19 am

「甘える」を自然な英語にするのは、やはり難しいですね。英語に翻訳された有名な小説などを参考にするといいかもしれません。

You have to be careful translating the 後悔させる part too, because someone reading in English could misinterpret that the girl is actually intent on making the guy be regretful. At the very least, we know that she is not harbouring any bad feelings towards this guy (lover) so the flavour of her feelings (can't really call it irony but I don't know what it could be called...) should come through in the English text if possible.
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby Ranja » Thu 11.29.2012 7:21 am

MeitanteiJesus wrote:@Ranja, would you say then that it would be translated as:

「それに、(あたなを)後悔させるぐらい、(わたしはあなたに)甘えていいんだよね?」
Also, to the point of making you regret it, can I lean/depend/rely on you?


Yeah... but, the nuance of 'childlike and wanting attention' that was in the original sentence has been lost, though.
And the [to the point of making you regret it] part sounds too literal.

MeitanteiJesus wrote:Also, trying to translate the definition of 甘え you quoted there is a bit difficult for me:

「つきはなされてしまうことを否定し、接近欲求を含み、分離する感情を別のよりよい方法で解決しようとすること」

I think I'm just more confused now lol.


Actually, I don't understand it, either. Lol

I read the book years ago. Only a few fragments of the book's content remain in my head. :)
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Re: 後悔させるぐらい

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Thu 11.29.2012 2:23 pm

Okay thanks, I think I get the gist of it now.

I'm just not gonna bother trying to perfectly convert it to English, as long as I understand the nuance now lol.
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