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Sadness is over???

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Sadness is over???

Postby Sukebe Uchuujin » Wed 11.09.2005 7:43 am

[center]Can some kind soul please translate the following for me......

'kanashimi no fukasa no naka ni shin no yorokobi ga aru'

It is a stencil graffiti written near by brothers house in London.....

I know its something to do with sadness being over but im stuck......
Thanks in advance.[/center]
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RE: Sadness is over???

Postby InsanityRanch » Wed 11.09.2005 9:27 am

In the depths of sadness, there is happiness in the heart.

Kind of odd Japanese though...?
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: Sadness is over???

Postby Sukebe Uchuujin » Wed 11.09.2005 1:59 pm

[center]Thanks Insanity Ranch san,
but can I be a royal pain in the 'oshide' and ask for a word for word translation as im trying to study.........(finally gave in and started on Kanji yesterday-talk about mountain to climb!!!)
You are, in advance, a diamond geezer or lady (sorry no time to check your profile to see which it is ;-)[/center]
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RE: Sadness is over???

Postby InsanityRanch » Wed 11.09.2005 2:53 pm

'kanashimi no fukasa no naka ni shin no yorokobi ga aru'

kanashimi -- sadness
fukasa -- depth(s)
The 'no' between them makes it "the depths of sadness"

no naka ni -- in

(In Japanese, they have POSTpositions. They say "the house in" instead of "in the house")

shin -- heart
yorokobi -- joy
The 'no' between them makes it "the heart's joy"

ga aru -- exists
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: Sadness is over???

Postby Sukebe Uchuujin » Wed 11.09.2005 7:13 pm

[center]Domo Arigatou[/center]
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RE: Sadness is over???

Postby InsanityRanch » Mon 11.14.2005 9:58 am

Coco-san, one of our Japanese members, has been kind enough to correct my answer above, so I wanted to set the record straight.

The real translation is: "Within the depths of sorrow there is true joy". It is a classical tag in Japanese -- part of an introduction to Buddhism written by a priest named 瓜生津 隆真. (Sorry, I don't know how to pronounce that name.)

In accordance with my practice of getting as much mileage out of my mistakes as possible, I'd like to analyze what went wrong. It seems (to me at least) that it illustrates one of the problems with writing Japanese without kanji.

I thought "shin no yorokobi" might be 心の喜び -- the heart's joy. I'll admit it sounded a bit odd to me, and I wondered why it wasn't "kokorono yorokobi". But I didn't have the chops to think of an alternative kanji for "shin".

The real reading is 真の喜び. 真の means "true".

Japanese, even more than English, is a language rich in homonyms. One big class of homonyms is caused by same-reading kanji. (That's the case here.) Another, and more mysterious big group of homonyms is native Japanese verbs with the same pronunciation but quite different meanings. For instance, utsuru means "to be photographed" as well as "to move from one house to another" and "to be infected." There are SIX verbs pronounced hakaru (the most of any verb, I think). Three of the hakaru verbs have to do with measurements of various sorts, while the other three have to do with talking, planning and plotting. Shizumeru means both "to calm or appease" and "to sink".

In normal writing, these differences are signalled by the kanji chosen. In speaking, of course, there are no kanji and context has to suffice. And of course, for native Japanese people, normally context suffices. Though I do wonder if they sometimes must ask each other which homonym is meant in order to resolve an ambiguous statement!

In any case, I personally am very grateful that Japanese is written with kanji, and this particular mistake of mine just confirms that feeling!

Shira
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: Sadness is over???

Postby Sukebe Uchuujin » Tue 11.15.2005 4:52 am

[center]Domo Arigatou to Insanity Ranch San And Coco San
The graffitti has now become a personal obsession, i NEED to find out who wrote it , given that it was interesting enough when it was just a little bit weird japanese written on a wall in London. But now i want to know why whoever wrote it chose that particular phrase and why given the possible misinterpretations (even by some of my other japanese friends) they chose to write it in romanji.
Thanks again.[/center]

[center]Oh and by the way i study tibetan buddhism so its very interesting from a buddhist point of view.Who'd have thought such a simple piece of graffitti would prove so interesting?
Who says its all vandalism???[/center]
Last edited by Sukebe Uchuujin on Tue 11.15.2005 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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