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A Basho Haiku Question

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A Basho Haiku Question

Postby ika_squid » Sun 07.03.2005 2:28 pm

Kon'nichiwa. I just joined about a half hour ago! One of Basho's haiku can be translated as the following:
Old pond
Frog jumps in
Splash

However, I have found the Japanese to be rather obscure. Before long, I found the following:
Furuike ya
Kowazu tobikomu
Mizu no oto

But when I tried translating it, I back translated the results to the following:
Furui ike
Kowazu tobikomu
Mizu no oto

http://japan.chez.tiscali.fr/Culture/Japan/Haiku6.htm (one of two sites disagreeing with the first-shown Japanese romaji in this post) shows the following:
Furui ike ya
Kowazu tobikomu
Mizu no oto

But the first line here appears to have one mora too many. I don't know why the 'ya' is there either. Could someone please aid me in this translatory dilemma?
Thanks for any help.
********************************************************************
Last edited by ika_squid on Sun 07.03.2005 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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crow + thief = squid
烏 + 賊 = 烏賊
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RE: A Basho Haiku Question

Postby zengargoyle » Sun 07.03.2005 4:57 pm

you might also want to check here http://carlsensei.com/classical/index.php/text/view/1 for some more translations.

古池や
蛙飛び込む
水の音

i think the や is a form of the sentence ending particle よ. so it emphasizes the fact of the old pond as new information not known to the listener. "so, there's this old pond. a frog jumps in... splash!".
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RE: A Basho Haiku Question

Postby clay » Sun 07.03.2005 6:20 pm

古池や is furu ike ya and not furui ike ya (since there can only be 5 sounds for the first line).
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RE: A Basho Haiku Question

Postby ika_squid » Sun 07.03.2005 7:48 pm

But 'furu' doesn't mean 'old', does it?
正力

crow + thief = squid
烏 + 賊 = 烏賊
ika_squid
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun 07.03.2005 1:46 pm

RE: A Basho Haiku Question

Postby mandolin » Mon 07.04.2005 2:33 am

I can really only point to a song on this one for reference...

Ookina Furudokei (Hirai Ken)

Means: "The big, old clock"

My japanese penpal concurrs, that the 'i' ending of the adjective is sometimes dropped when prefixed to a noun like that.
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RE: A Basho Haiku Question

Postby clay » Mon 07.04.2005 11:45 am

-i adjectives when combined with nouns, the -i can be dropped.

青い空 aoi sora - a blue sky
But you can say:
青空 ao zora - blue skies

You can see the sound 's' changes to 'z'. I guess the difference between the two is when you drop the 'i' it really becomes one word. In fact, 青空 is in many dictionaries as a word.
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RE: A Basho Haiku Question

Postby ika_squid » Mon 07.04.2005 11:49 am

Okay, that explains things. Thanks everyone.
正力

crow + thief = squid
烏 + 賊 = 烏賊
ika_squid
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun 07.03.2005 1:46 pm


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