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How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

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How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby GraceyLike » Mon 07.21.2008 5:58 am

Me and my friend are 13, and want to take JLPT 4. I was just wondering how old you have to be to take it, because I can't seem to find out?
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby richvh » Mon 07.21.2008 6:30 am

This has been asked before. There is no age limit.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby chikara » Mon 07.21.2008 11:04 pm

GraceyLike wrote:Me and my friend .......

You are probably old enough to try the ELPT as well :P
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby AJBryant » Mon 07.21.2008 11:42 pm

chikara wrote:
GraceyLike wrote:Me and my friend .......

You are probably old enough to try the ELPT as well :P


I love you, man. :)
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Wakannai » Tue 07.22.2008 5:52 am

I've always vehemently disagreed with that particular grammar rule.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Feba » Tue 07.22.2008 6:01 am

Wakannai wrote:Me have always vehemently disagreed with that particular grammar rule.


:D
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Wakannai » Tue 07.22.2008 6:48 am

The point is, while standard rules work just fine with either word in isolation, forcing the same rules when the word is in a compound always sounds artificial and pretentious. The nature of the words change when in compounds. If prescriptive grammar had any bearing on truth, then "John and I" and "I and John" would sound equally natural, but they do not. The use of I forces the other name to the front. The reverse is true with me. "Me and John" sounds fine, but "John and me" is just as strange sounding.

Thus if there were any "rule" bearing on the usage of I or me in a compound, then it would be based on Emphasis. Me and John went to the store means: "John went with me".
John and I went to the store. means "I went with John".

Instead of saying, "Take one tire off the bike to test the tandem." The test should be, "Put someone else on the bike"
Rewrite the sentence dropping "and" and adding "with" to understand the difference in emphasis.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby richvh » Tue 07.22.2008 7:24 am

The point you're overlooking is that the original was "Me and my friend are 13"; remove the "and my friend" (and adjust the verb for number) and you're left with "Me am 13."
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Mike Cash » Tue 07.22.2008 7:52 am

Things like "me and my friend" I can live with. What irritates me is the common tendency to hyper-correct by using "xxx and I" in objective case situations.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 07.22.2008 8:23 am

richvh wrote:The point you're overlooking is that the original was "Me and my friend are 13"; remove the "and my friend" (and adjust the verb for number) and you're left with "Me am 13."


For many speakers of English, this apparently is not a valid reasoning for their internal grammar. It's a puzzle as to why speakers who would absolutely never say "Me is 13" will say "Me and my friend are 13" without pause. Chomsky's theory of "case blocking" is one theory to explain it; that the case system is so weak in English (and motivated primarily by position in the sentence) that a compound noun is able to block case assignment, thus allowing for an objective or reflexive (i.e. "This was done by John and myself") pronoun in places where it would never be used in the singular. For some reason, the reflexive use seems more generally acceptable.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby furrykef » Tue 07.22.2008 8:31 am

Mike Cash wrote:Things like "me and my friend" I can live with. What irritates me is the common tendency to hyper-correct by using "xxx and I" in objective case situations.


Or even worse, I distinctly recall Bob Barker ten or so years ago saying, "You did this because of I?" It sounded so strange to my ear that I still remember it.

I really don't think it matters whether you say "Me and my friend" or "my friend and I" in casual speech. You should know the rule, of course, and you should follow it in more formal situations, but in casual speech, there's really not much reason to worry so much about arbitrary grammar rules.

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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 07.22.2008 12:20 pm

furrykef wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:Things like "me and my friend" I can live with. What irritates me is the common tendency to hyper-correct by using "xxx and I" in objective case situations.


Or even worse, I distinctly recall Bob Barker ten or so years ago saying, "You did this because of I?" It sounded so strange to my ear that I still remember it.


That is odd, and is almost certainly hypercorrection. The rule that describes the usage of many native speakers is that pronouns in sentence-initial position, and not in a compound phrase, use form A ("I", "he", etc.), and that any other usage uses form B ("me", "him", etc.) I think sometimes people are corrected in such a way that they don't fully understand the prescriptive rules, and thus they come up with stuff like "because of I" or "leave it to John and I"; flailing around to attempt to conform to rules they don't really understand. One problem is that even the usage writers differ on certain issues related to pronoun forms (e.g. "taller than me", "It is me", and the use of reflexive forms in subject or object position), so perhaps it's not surprising that people make so many mistakes in this area.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Mike Cash » Tue 07.22.2008 1:19 pm

As I've mentioned before, I listen quite extensively to Old Time Radio programs. Chris, you may find it interesting that the first program where I heard a character (other than an obvious lowbrow) using something like "It was him" instead of "It was he" was somewhere around 1949. It was also sometime around that same period that I heard "Do you have xxx?" instead of "Have you xxx?"

On another forum I frequent there is a fellow who has recently started to hyper-correct "who" to "whom". I think the rule he is using is that any place other than the first word in the sentence, use "whom". I am sorely tempted to PM him and set him straight. I'd rather see the distinction totally ignored than hyper-corrected.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 07.22.2008 2:00 pm

Mike Cash wrote:As I've mentioned before, I listen quite extensively to Old Time Radio programs. Chris, you may find it interesting that the first program where I heard a character (other than an obvious lowbrow) using something like "It was him" instead of "It was he" was somewhere around 1949. It was also sometime around that same period that I heard "Do you have xxx?" instead of "Have you xxx?"


I haven't looked at the OED, but M-W's Dictionary of English usage's earliest citation for "it is me" is early 18th century, and the controversy over the usage started about the same time. But it sounds like maybe it took a long time before it began to be used even in more formal or "prepared" contexts by educated people.

On another forum I frequent there is a fellow who has recently started to hyper-correct "who" to "whom". I think the rule he is using is that any place other than the first word in the sentence, use "whom". I am sorely tempted to PM him and set him straight. I'd rather see the distinction totally ignored than hyper-corrected.


I agree; if you aren't willing to learn the actual distinction it's better to just stick to your natural idiom -- particularly with "whom", which (in my experience) is rarely used in normal speech even by the highly educated. If you try too hard and do it wrong, you can end up looking more foolish than if you just stick to what's natural for you.
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Re: How old do you have to be to take JLPT?

Postby chikara » Tue 07.22.2008 9:01 pm

Wakannai wrote:...... Me and John went to the store means: "John went with me". .....

No it doesn't. It means "Me is inarticulate" :P

Surely the OP should read "One and one's friend are 13 ....", well in the Queen's English at least :)
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