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People Amaze Me Sometimes

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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby Gundaetiapo » Tue 07.03.2007 8:19 pm

I've become somewhat of a morbid person who doesn't really care about the lives of children who haven't become cognitive


I think john2's lecture on countries and black suns was more reasonable than this.
:o
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby Hatori » Wed 07.04.2007 12:47 am

Gundaetiapo wrote:
I've become somewhat of a morbid person who doesn't really care about the lives of children who haven't become cognitive


I think john2's lecture on countries and black suns was more reasonable than this.
:o


I do agree that large paragraph is somewhat scary. :|
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby sei » Wed 07.04.2007 9:34 am

Hatori wrote:
I do agree that large paragraph is somewhat scary. :|

Even more scary when thinking there can be other people in the world with those same ideas.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby Dehitay » Wed 07.04.2007 10:12 am

sei wrote:
Also, I should add that it's completely different having a baby of your own than adoption someone else's child.


As far as the process of having a child goes, it's completely different. However, in the sense of child rearing, the difference is so minor that it shouldn't have an effect. Like I said, the health problems for childbirth are worse than those of adoption (none), so I think adoption is just the more logical idea.

The idea that a genetic child is more special than an adopted one seems like a form of traditional brainwashing to me. It's just an idea that gets passed down through generations. In the same sense, roses and candles are thought of as romantic mostly because everyone says they are.
Last edited by Dehitay on Wed 07.04.2007 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby richvh » Wed 07.04.2007 11:15 am

Childbirth: A dirty job, but somebody has to do it.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby Hatori » Wed 07.04.2007 1:04 pm

richvh wrote:
Childbirth: A dirty job, but somebody has to do it.


But it's also a miracle.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby sei » Wed 07.04.2007 1:22 pm

Dehitay wrote:
As far as the process of having a child goes, it's completely different. However, in the sense of child rearing, the difference is so minor that it shouldn't have an effect. Like I said, the health problems for childbirth are worse than those of adoption (none), so I think adoption is just the more logical idea.

The idea that a genetic child is more special than an adopted one seems like a form of traditional brainwashing to me. It's just an idea that gets passed down through generations. In the same sense, roses and candles are thought of as romantic mostly because everyone says they are.


I wonder how you can say that. Do you live in this world??

For a mother, and a father, watching the whole process of a child being "made" in the woman's womb is just amazing. Knowing something is growing inside of yourself, or in your case, your wife's womb is spectacular, and can't be compared to having a child from someone else. It's never the same, but you can still love the child like your own.

Certain women feel empty inside for not having a child, be it adopted or not. So I wonder how you can say that is a "traditional brainwashing". That's just incredibly naive. If you say that is brainwashing then I suppose everything in your life has been brainwashed into you.

It's not brainwashing. It's actually called living and enjoying your life.
Last edited by sei on Thu 07.05.2007 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 07.05.2007 10:28 am

Dehitay wrote:

The idea that a genetic child is more special than an adopted one seems like a form of traditional brainwashing to me. It's just an idea that gets passed down through generations. In the same sense, roses and candles are thought of as romantic mostly because everyone says they are.


have you had a child yet? and not being genetically able to do that you have no idea what you are talking about. the connection a mother and child have through the 9 months it grows in her belly is one that is nothing but genetics. the connection is strong to the point that women have died when they found out their child didn't live through child birth..

I know you are speaking at it from a completely ignorant angle, meaning you have no idea what you are talking about, but making your own assumptions based on little to no info.. Try asking a few people that have actually gone through it.

And I know that adoptive parents can form very strong bonds with their adoptive children, but the connection there is harder to develop and harder to maintain..

To the mother and father of a child born, there is nothing more special to them. to the adoptive parents that I know, they also feel a special connection. but those connections are totally different.. one is bonded genetically and one isn't. Now, what you make of that in your life, time will tell, but I certainly hope you stay in ignorance about it.. Forming opinions is a good thing, forming informative opinions is what one should look for.. The former is just an opinionated person, the latter is an infromed person.. (see the difference?)

sei wrote:
For a mother, and a father, watching the whole process of a child being "made" in the woman's wound is just amazing. .


i believe the word you are looking for is woman's womb not woman's wound.
Last edited by two_heads_talking on Thu 07.05.2007 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby sei » Thu 07.05.2007 10:50 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
i believe the word you are looking for is woman's womb not woman's wound.


Yes that's right, I'll correct it. I felt it was wrong somehow, but couldn't figure out how it should be. Thanks.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 07.05.2007 12:06 pm

:D
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby Dehitay » Thu 07.05.2007 12:14 pm

I can understand well what you both are saying, but to me, it still appears as only a psychological issue. I can't help but think that having a close bond with a natural born child is mostly a result of the romantification of the mother-child bond that's mentioned so commonly in today's society. If the physical bond itself was powerful enough, then I would think abortion wouldn't be profitable. Of course there's no way for me to personally know for sure. And I definitely don't have the resources or patience to create 2 test groups of people raised as average in today's society and people raised the same way except they somehow never hear anything about childbirth bonds.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby Tspoonami » Thu 07.05.2007 12:58 pm

If one looks at the world very objectively, and with cold logic, then one sees that people are probably better off not reproducing. There are enough young people in need of care that if at least most are adopted, it would once again become reasonable to allow for reproduction. Less humans would probably be better for the Earth as a whole nowadays, anyways. According to humans, humans are killing the Earth (which is not actually true; humans are just enacting severe changes, as the Earth will adapt). More humans means more killed Earth. I forgot what this paragraph was supposed to be about...

Emotions are what make humans unreasonable, selfish, and human. If one looks at the world as with emotion, one sees that there are millions of people suffering, not really living. There are millions of children in need of help (adoption, specifically). But, there are also millions of people who want to create life; people who want to raise their offspring; people who are oblivious to the suffering of other people. When these people learn about others who are suffering, others who are outside their 'safe zone,' they often think: let others deal with it, and I will maybe donate money or something to show that I feel emotion. But emotion is what makes them want to stay as far away from that as possible, and to keep on with their lives, making babies and whatnot. Emotion dictates lives. I forgot what this paragraph was supposed to be about, as well.

People have a carnal desire to reproduce; this is built in from nature. People love reproduction, and are loathe to consider the side effects. Nobody really wants to admit that there are people less fortunate than they are, whether to invoke pity for themselves or to protect their 'safe' image of existence. Nobody wants to talk untainted by emotion, since emotion gives speech and ideas life. So, when someone speaks with cold logic, and without emotion, people respond with emotional responses. One must look at all the facts, and all of the options, while not under the influence of emotion; however, this fashion of understanding, and analysis, is not truly human. But, when one is not thinking as a human, one will think in ways that are not human. Emotion makes human thought cloudy when considering inhuman thought, and thus creates bias that prevents understanding.

Okay, what the heck was I trying to get to? I don't think I had a central point. Wheal.
Last edited by Tspoonami on Thu 07.05.2007 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby hyperconjugated » Thu 07.05.2007 1:14 pm

Dehitay wrote:
I can understand well what you both are saying, but to me, it still appears as only a psychological issue. I can't help but think that having a close bond with a natural born child is mostly a result of the romantification of the mother-child bond that's mentioned so commonly in today's society. If the physical bond itself was powerful enough, then I would think abortion wouldn't be profitable.

There's whole field of psychology, evolutionary psychology , that focuses on the matter.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby sei » Thu 07.05.2007 1:33 pm

Dehitay wrote:
I can understand well what you both are saying, but to me, it still appears as only a psychological issue. I can't help but think that having a close bond with a natural born child is mostly a result of the romantification of the mother-child bond that's mentioned so commonly in today's society. If the physical bond itself was powerful enough, then I would think abortion wouldn't be profitable. Of course there's no way for me to personally know for sure. And I definitely don't have the resources or patience to create 2 test groups of people raised as average in today's society and people raised the same way except they somehow never hear anything about childbirth bonds.



Well, I just thought this: for example, any other animal besides humans. Like lions and so. The mother's automatically have a maternal instinct. They protect their child till they reach the age to be able to be alone.

Suppose it isn't such a great example, but you can see that even (considered) non-rational animals have, what you call "psychological issue" and "brainwashing". So how can this be? They aren't rational, yet they somehow were brainwashed to start to care for their children?

I don't know, just sounds weird.

And abortion, if you think about it, most people just do it because they think if they had the baby, they couldn't take care of it, so it would only in the end be worse for the baby. And after doing it, the woman blames herself through her life, thinking she shouldn't have done it. This is also why abortion is such a big issue.

But there are some, like you, who have a more cold perspective over it and keep thinking it was for the best, nothing else could be done. Just the fact they keep thinking about it though, proves they aren't so acceptive of it as they want to make believe.

Slightly off topic there. Sorry.
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RE: People Amaze Me Sometimes

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 07.05.2007 2:18 pm

logic and reason.. those are fighting words.. lol
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