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何これ?

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何これ?

Postby lomagu » Mon 09.12.2005 8:34 am

I came across this phrase 「〜というわけじゃあるまいし」 which means something like, "It's not as if ~".

The part I'm not sure about is the bold part. What is that word? Actually, I don't know if that whole thing is 1 word or different things stuck together.. like, ある + まい + し (which I'm beginning to think it is).
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RE: 何これ?

Postby Harisenbon » Mon 09.12.2005 8:59 am

you are correct. あるまい is the negative form of ある, while し is an ending form for listing reasons.

it would be the same as saying とういうわけではないし, I believe.
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RE: 何これ?

Postby Kates » Mon 09.12.2005 9:03 am

It is as you guessed: aru + mai + shi

I'm guessing you know 'aru' already. 'Shi' is used to list reasons for something. For example:
今晩、私は映画へ行きません。 宿題があるし、雨が降るし…
Konban, watashi ha eiga he ikimasen. Shukudai ga aru-shi, ame ga furu-shi...
I'm not going to the movie tonight. I have homework, and it's raining...

An explaination of "mai" is a little tricky.... It's typically a negative sense, instead of positive. It can mean 'rather' or 'probably' sometimes. I'd rather just share some examples to illustrate, because I'm not even sure I completely understand well enough to explain it. >_<

その先はまあ話しますまい。 (そのさきはまあはなしますまい。)
I'd rather not tell you the rest.

彼は行くまい。 (かれはいくまい。)
He probably won't go.

Q: あの人にできるでしょうか? (あのひとにできるでしょうか?)
A: できますまい。 
Q: Do you think he'll be able to do it?
A: I doubt it.

Maybe this last one is most closely related... (?)
子供(こども)じゃあるまいし、そんなことぐらいわかってるよ。
I'm quite aware of that. I'm not a child, you know!

I hope those examples give you some idea of how 'mai' is used in this sense. >_<
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RE: 何これ?

Postby lomagu » Mon 09.12.2005 9:04 am

I see. so can まい be used anytime like ない or does it have different connotations to it?
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RE: 何これ?

Postby Harisenbon » Mon 09.12.2005 9:47 am

it's more polite than ない, and you see it alot in written documents and whatnot.
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RE: 何これ?

Postby redfoxer » Mon 09.12.2005 12:10 pm

i love these useful tidbits of info, kates and harisenbon are geniuses!
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RE: 何これ?

Postby Spaztick » Mon 09.12.2005 12:25 pm

Cool! Learned something new!

It seems that まい has more connotation for "probably" where a straight ない means "not."

かれは今晩の映画に行くまい。 - He probably won't go to tonight's movie.
かれは今晩の英語に行くない。 - He won't go to tonight's movie.
かれは今羽の映画に行きたい。 - He doesn't go to tonight's movie.

Just wanted to note the difference between the last two, because even I didn't see the difference!
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RE: 何これ?

Postby Justin » Mon 09.12.2005 5:42 pm

ーまい can be used in two different ways, one of them expressing an intent (意思), and has other have already said, expressing speculation (推量).

An example of ーまい being used to express intent...

二日酔いの間はもう二度と飲む過ぎるまいと思うが、ついまた飲み過ぎてします。
I always think to myself that I'm never going to drink more than I can handle again when I'm feeling hung-over, but before I know it I drink too much again.

In everyday speech though you'd see ーないようにしよう or ーないつもりだ used more often as ーまい has a more stiffer feeling to it.

Everyone else has already explained the other way to use ーまい when you're making a speculation fairly well, but I figured I would just add that it's basically the same as just saying ーないだろう.

As for ーじゃあるまいし itself, it carries the same meaning as ーではないのだから and ーではないはずだから, if you'd like to know. ;)

Spaztick wrote:
Cool! Learned something new!

It seems that まい has more connotation for "probably" where a straight ない means "not."

かれは今晩の映画に行くまい。 - He probably won't go to tonight's movie.
かれは今晩の英語に行くない。 - He won't go to tonight's movie.
かれは今羽の映画に行きたい。 - He doesn't go to tonight's movie.

Just wanted to note the difference between the last two, because even I didn't see the difference!

I'm not for sure what you quite mean about those last two there. The middle one you've got as 行くない, did you want that to be 行かない instead? Also, on that last one there, shouldn't that be "He wants to go to the movie tonight"?
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RE: 何これ?

Postby CviCvraeVtMoriar » Mon 09.12.2005 7:57 pm

lomagu wrote:
I see. so can まい be used anytime like ない or does it have different connotations to it?


まい, as others have said, is fairly formal. I don't know how likely it is that you would hear まい in colloquial Japanese.

Also, again as others have said, ない is not the same as まい. The less formal equivalents of まい would be:

友達というわけではなかろうし、 彼は俺が嫌いだろうから。 (なかろう is actually quite formal and apt to only be found in literature...)
友達というわけじゃないだろうし、 彼は俺が嫌いだろうから。
友達というわけではないでしょうし、 彼は僕が嫌いでしょうから。

"Because it probably isn't the case that he's a friend, and because he probably doesn't like me."


Some superfluous example uses of まい:

勉強しようか勉強するまい(すまい)か迷った。 I was perplexed as to whether I should study or not.

映画は面白くはあるまいよ。 This movie probably isn't interesting.

(映画は面白かろうよ。 This movie is probably interesting.)

先生は日本へ行くまいと思った。 The teacher thought that he probably wouldn't go to Japan.

先生は日本へ行くまい。 The teacher probably won't go to Japan.
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RE: 何これ?

Postby Spaztick » Tue 09.13.2005 11:09 am

Ah, yes thanks you justin!
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RE: 何これ?

Postby lomagu » Wed 09.14.2005 7:30 am

ok, thanks everyone :):D

so, it's more formal then? in my attempts to understand it, I found some examples. they didn't seem very formal though. I'll post them here:

1) 小さな赤ちゃんじゃあるまいし。 - You are not a little baby.
2) 元気出せよ。この世の終わりじゃあるまいし。 - Cheer up, it's not the end of the world.
3) 子どもじゃあるまいし。- Don't be a baby.
4) あそこには二度と行くまい。 - I wouldn't go there again for the world.
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RE: 何これ?

Postby Gaijinian » Wed 09.14.2005 5:28 pm

結黒s思議で珍しい言い方だと思いますけどね。
The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all.
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RE: 何これ?

Postby lomagu » Sat 09.17.2005 9:09 pm

そうか。じゃ、使わないね。

ありがと:)
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RE: 何これ?

Postby ryuubu » Mon 09.26.2005 9:11 pm

Aww but it sounds so damn cool haha.
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RE: 何これ?

Postby skrhgh3b » Tue 09.27.2005 2:53 pm

now, i could probably look this up myself, but when is し more appropriate than から, because in colloquial speech at least, i sometimes see し come out of a native speark where i might have been more inclined to say から, or maybe i'm just imagining it....
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