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A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

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A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby b4d0m3n » Wed 09.14.2005 11:33 am

I'm using 'Japanese for Busy People', a fantastic book, and I've run into a wee problem. See, they write ki differently. Instead of き, theirs goes like this:

[center]Image[/center]

Tell me, dudes, what gives? I'm learning to write these things at the moment. Though I wouldn't think something as popular as JFBP would have mistakes in it. Is it merely an alternate way of writing the character?
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby Supergrunch » Wed 09.14.2005 11:46 am

It's like our letter "a"- look at it on the computer and it has an extra bit on the top. likewise, with "ki" the bottom bit is joined up. You should never join it up when writing (the same applies to "sa" and "chi" also).
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby b4d0m3n » Wed 09.14.2005 11:52 am

Ah. Thank ye.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby Daichi » Wed 09.14.2005 11:59 am

Supergrunch wrote:
It's like our letter "a"- look at it on the computer and it has an extra bit on the top. likewise, with "ki" the bottom bit is joined up. You should never join it up when writing (the same applies to "sa" and "chi" also).


Yeah, just differences between the printed character and the written one, however I usually do see chi 'joined up' even in handwritten Japanese.
Last edited by Daichi on Wed 09.14.2005 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby b4d0m3n » Wed 09.14.2005 12:14 pm

Daichi wrote:
Supergrunch wrote:
It's like our letter "a"- look at it on the computer and it has an extra bit on the top. likewise, with "ki" the bottom bit is joined up. You should never join it up when writing (the same applies to "sa" and "chi" also).


Yeah, just differences between the printed character and the written one, however I usually do see chi 'joined up' even in handwritten Japanese.


Really? How common is the joined up version? It's certainly a lot easier to write.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby Spaztick » Wed 09.14.2005 12:30 pm

It's perfectly understandable either way, but it is easier and faster once you write it like above, just lift your pen up slightly.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby Daichi » Wed 09.14.2005 12:47 pm

I couldn't say how common it is, I think it's the normal way to write 'chi', but I've only seen a limited amount of handwritten Japanese. However, these were mostly textbooks, so I assume they'd teach the most universally accepted handwriting style.

Of course, in English handwriting differs massively from one person to another. I imagine Japanese isn't any different, even with all the rules regarding stroke order etc.

For example a quick search on Google Images found this image:
Image

If you look carefully you should be able to see that whoever wrote this does write ki and sa by joining the bottom stroke.

Ki = 2nd column from right, 12th character
Sa = 3rd column, 6th character
Last edited by Daichi on Wed 09.14.2005 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby redfoxer » Wed 09.14.2005 2:29 pm

its just different handwriting. Its like saying comic sans looks different from new times roman. They have subtle differences thats why some characters seem different from others but there always recognisable. if you look in some texts, the ta has the bottom "=" joined together to form a shape similar to "z" but its still recognisable as ta. Other examples include RI written in just one stroke making it look similar to a yu. oh wait u can see it in that image posted. 5th row from right, 8 from bottom.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby skrhgh3b » Wed 09.14.2005 5:21 pm

well, it's only the difference between handwritten and print japanese. unfortunately, there aren't many good, readily available examples of japanese handwriting for the foreign learner to model, and i think this is one reason why gaijin handwriting is so atrocious - including yours truly. i learned the kana alphabets years ago, and i'm still working on improving my handwriting.

also, 'japanese for busy people' is hardly fantastic.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby Harisenbon » Wed 09.14.2005 7:49 pm

Like the other said, it's just a difference in writing style. Just like there are quite a few ways to write g or a, there are a number of ways to some japanese characters depending on style, use and who's writing them. Generally, the only characters that change like that are き さ ゆ and り, I think. As you get used to reading the characters, you won't even see the difference any more.

By the way, Daichi, It's hard to tell because the image is kind of blurry, but I'm almost positive the Japanese in that image is typed, not hand written.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby Kates » Wed 09.14.2005 8:12 pm

I've seen a girl who writes と with the first stroke crossing through the second. (: I think any character could be 'personalized' in a way.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby b4d0m3n » Wed 09.14.2005 8:28 pm

skrhgh3b wrote:also, 'japanese for busy people' is hardly fantastic.


I appreciate your opinion. For me personally, it is an invaluable asset. I'm learning the language and actually understanding it (minus a few quirks).
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby skrhgh3b » Wed 09.14.2005 8:57 pm

I've seen a girl who writes と with the first stroke crossing through the second. (: I think any character could be 'personalized' in a way.


based on my pen pal's handwriting, i now write と、を、and ゆ without lifting my pencil from the paper (or pen, for that matter). i'm seriously thinking about creating a webpage to archive examples of native japanese handwriting. if i can collect enough examples, i'll definitely do that.
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby Akutabai_Gamma » Wed 09.14.2005 8:59 pm

Samething with sometimes i see it written as
Image
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RE: A question about writing 'き' (ki)...

Postby b4d0m3n » Wed 09.14.2005 9:08 pm

skrhgh3b wrote:
I've seen a girl who writes と with the first stroke crossing through the second. (: I think any character could be 'personalized' in a way.


based on my pen pal's handwriting, i now write と、を、and ゆ without lifting my pencil from the paper (or pen, for that matter). i'm seriously thinking about creating a webpage to archive examples of native japanese handwriting. if i can collect enough examples, i'll definitely do that.


That seems like a good idea.
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