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Who all, where all, what all

英語を勉強している方のためのフォーラムです。練習のために英語の文章を投稿してもかまわなく、英語の文法・語彙に関する質問をしてもけっこうです。

RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 08.03.2007 9:02 am

Yeah...I didn't even realize it was a localized construction until I went to college.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby clay » Fri 08.03.2007 9:32 am

Since we are on this subject, one peculiarity in north Florida is saying '10 cent' for '10 centS.' When I moved here some 15 years ago, this bugged me to no end. Still does.

Is this found elsewhere?

Also, what about using 'fixing' to mean 'about'?

"I'm fixing to go to the store."
meaning "I'm about to go to the store."

I was made fun of for saying that shortly after moving to Florida :D
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby Shirasagi » Fri 08.03.2007 9:41 am

"Wanna come with?" - Perfectly natural (but then, I am from the Midwest).

I understand "fixing to", but I never use it, except in jest. I'm kinda surprised Floridians would give you crap about it, clay. I assumed Florida fell into the southern dialect belt. I know they say that in Alabama, and it's not that far from Florida...
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby Shirasagi » Fri 08.03.2007 10:03 am

clay wrote:
How is this:

Sprecst þu Englisc? Ic leorne Englisc!
Speakest thou English? I'm learning English!


Yup, very good.

Beowulf! Forþæm þe Chaucer bið to eaðe!
Beowulf! Seeing that Chaucer is too easy.


That'll do, although it's probably easier to translate "forðæm þe" as "because".

Eala! Ðu eart Effingham! Ic eom Iosue - ic gefultumode þe for þinum T-scyrte!
Alas! You are Effingham! I am Iosue - I helped you ?for? thy T-shirt!


Not, "alas", but rather, "Hey!" or "Wow!"

Normally in modern English we say, "helped you with" - but prepositions are funny things. The Old English word "wið" meant "toward" or "against" (so this is one of those words the grammar police misuse all the time). The closest equivalent to modern "with" was "mid", but that doesn't quite sound idiomatic here. It'd be like "your T-shirt and I helped you!" or "I used your t-shirt to help you!" So, there are a number of possibilities.

One was "be", the forerunner of "by". In this case, it would have meant, "I helped you about/concerning/in reference to your T-shirt".

Another possibility was "ymbe", the forerunner of "about". It would have meant "I helped you on account of/in regard to/concerning your T-shirt."

In the end I went with "for", which in this case means "on account of/for the sake of". I think had I been spending more time studying German I might have used "ymbe", because it seems very analogous to "über", but I've been slacking off on Deutsch, and "for" made sense.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby clay » Fri 08.03.2007 10:57 am

Wow! Thanks for the lesson.

I had a world of a time Googling "gefultumode" until I remembered my German - past tense.

I'd love to study OE, but I guess I should first attempt the 'easy' Chaucer.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby AndyTheUsagi » Sun 08.05.2007 4:56 pm

I just talked to my dad today, and we reached the conclusion that "all" in this phrase is just a "filler" word. It's not used for hesitation, like the word "like", but it flows with the sentence in a way that draws the sentence out slightly and still makes some amount of sense. When I really think about it, one does not ask "Who all was there?" and expect a significantly different answer than if one asks "Who was there?". It doesn't add any meaning to the sentence, or for that matter, a great deal of sophistication... Just makes it one word longer.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 08.05.2007 5:21 pm

Unfortunately you can't really trust the opinions of native speakers (either ours or yours) -- only by observation and data can you come to any conclusions about how words or terms are used. This is especially true because there's a lot of prejudice -- for instance, your comment that this use of all is unsophisticated and arbitrary.

When I really think about it, one does not ask "Who all was there?" and expect a significantly different answer than if one asks "Who was there?".


"one"? Or you?

A very arbitrary reason, but then, American English is an arbitrary language in general.


It's actually not. Most language features have very reasonable explanations.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby AndyTheUsagi » Sun 08.05.2007 5:46 pm

Very good points, Chris. I put that part about sophistication in to eliminate it as a possible reason for the use of the word. Sophistication is, though, a matter of opinion, and I think Chikara's posts may have swayed me slightly toward questioning how sophisticated this use of "all" is. That, and admitting a potential shortcoming can help to avoid a clash of conflicting opinions (i.e. mine since I am familiar with the phrase's use vs. Chikara being fairly new to it and finding it 'amusing', if you will.)
I think the last part about English being arbitrary had the same motive behind it, though; I realize that that was completely inaccurate, and I have edited that statement out.

Now, let me edit that first statement. In my personal experience, the question "Who all was there?" does not evoke a significantly different answer than the question "Who was there?". (Therefore it is only reasonable to expect the same)

I also know where you're coming from with native speakers not being the most reliable source. I still want to throw my opinion out there, though. (And I see that you have too, below.)
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 08.05.2007 5:58 pm

I'm not sure what the difference is myself; I think that I tend to use the "all" variants when I'm less certain about the number of things involved, but that's a tentative guess.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby chikara » Sun 08.05.2007 10:15 pm

clay wrote:
... what about using 'fixing' to mean 'about'?

"I'm fixing to go to the store."
meaning "I'm about to go to the store."

I was made fun of for saying that shortly after moving to Florida :D

I have heard the use of "fixing" in that context but I take it to mean "preparing". If you are preparing to do something then it is a logical assumption that you are about to do it.

Similar to;
"Can I fix you a drink?" meaning "Can I prepare you a drink?"
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby clay » Sun 08.05.2007 10:18 pm

Similar to;
"Can I fix you a drink?" meaning "Can I prepare you a drink?"


With the usage I mean, the following would work:

"I'm fixing to fix you a drink."
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby chikara » Sun 08.05.2007 11:18 pm

clay wrote:
With the usage I mean, the following would work:

"I'm fixing to fix you a drink."

That works for me.

"I'm preparing to prepare you a drink."
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby zengargoyle » Sun 08.05.2007 11:46 pm

:) for me, that's "i'm a fixin' to fix you a drink." back to the original topic, "Who all was at the party?" is like adding 達 in Japanese... American English has lost the difference between singular 'You' and plural 'You', and some dialects have substituted "You all / Y'all" for the plural form. "Who all" is just the interrogatory form of 'You all', which is the plural form of 'You'. "Who all" is just the interrogatory form of 'You all' (aka Y'all) == 'You'達.

the same for 'Where all'. "all" is a modifier that expands the singular instance into the complete plural instances. "where did you go?" is answered with a single 'place that you went to', where "where all did you go" is only answered by a more complete account of all of the different places you visited. "all" is a plurality marker.

this may be a midwestern thing... when i saw "Where all did you go over break?" my first thought was "Where did you all go over break?"... or "Where did y'all go over break?"

English has a bunch of leftover phrases from the past when there was still a difference between singular 'You' and plural 'You'. different dialects have worked around this loss in different ways.

anyway... my favorite is Can I help who's next, which is a leftover from ancient times that "OMG" i heard just yesterday. it's like totally bad English, but still it's a leftover from the olden days that if you pay attention and listen, you'll hear it quite often.....

anyway... born and raised in the SouthWest part of Virginia, "Who all" and "You all" and even "Where all" are perfectly normal ways of asking about a plural (達) rather than a singular instance.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby Koosh » Fri 08.24.2007 2:52 am

For the original asker of this question, Who all, Where all, what all.

The following hints will make it so that your english sounds natural, and not dialectical.

You should never use "What all". Instead, you should use "What are you/they (all) doing?"
You should never use "Where all". Instead, you should use "Where are you/they all going?"
You should never use "Who all". Who, in itself, is applicable to plural questions without any change. So you should say, "Who is going?" or "Who is that person over there?". It can be used for single and plural applications.

If you use "Who all" "What all" "Where all" you will get this reaction from native speakers. They will think, "Is that proper usage? hmm...." and eventually make their decision. However, that doesn't change the fact that they thought it was strange to begin with.
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RE: Who all, where all, what all

Postby jziemba » Fri 08.24.2007 3:03 am

I grew up in Michigan and we use the Who all, Where all, what all very often

EX: What all did you this weekend?
Who all went to the party?
Where all did you go today?

Kinda like if you go to the southern states and you ask for a Coke.
What kind of Coke do you want?
Too Hot
Too Upper
Too Happy
To Relax
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