Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Have a Question about some Grammar point? Share it with the world!

~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby mechakucha » Thu 09.15.2005 3:43 am

I'm quite confused with the usage of the ~te iru form as either with ~ing or as ~have done and it seems to be used interchangably from the textbook that I'm using.
For example:
1. 田辺さんは、もう音楽を聞いている
Would this be read as
Present Progressive: Tanabe-san is already listening to the song
or Present Perfect: Tanabe-san has already listened to the song

2. あの映画を見ていませんか
Is it translated as "Aren't you seeing that movie?" or "Haven't you seen that movie?"

Which of these two different translation should I interpret it as? And when should I use it as the Present Progressive form or the Present Perfect form?
Thanks for answering in advance.
mechakucha
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu 09.01.2005 7:24 pm

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby Harisenbon » Thu 09.15.2005 4:39 am

ている is always present form. It is something that is currently being done even at the present. (I BELIEVE that's present progressive, but I don't quite remember what that means). if you use ていた, you would be saying "was doing", which I believe is Present Perfect, is it not?

Anyways, as my knowledge of english terminology fails me, here are some translation examples.

1. 田辺さんは、もう音楽を聞いている
Would be translated as "Mr. Tanabe is already listening to music"

If you wanted to say he has already listened to music, you would put the verb in past form.
田辺さんは、もう音楽を聴いた。

2. あの映画を見ていませんか
This would be, "Aren't you watching that movie (now)?"

if you wanted to say "have you seen the movie", you should put it in past form.
あの映画を観ました?

if you want to say "haven't you seen the movie yet?" you would use the てない form used for expressing experience.
あの映画を観てないの?
Want to learn Japanese the right way? How about for free?
Ippatsu // Japanesetesting.com
User avatar
Harisenbon
 
Posts: 2964
Joined: Tue 06.14.2005 3:24 am
Location: Gifu, Japan
Native language: (poor) English

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby mechakucha » Thu 09.15.2005 11:48 am

Present perfect literally means speaking about a present action which has been completed. eg. has eaten, has seen, has read...etc...
And thanks a lot. That clear up my doubts a little.
So how would you say,
"I had seen that movie about a month ago"
Would this be correct?: "1か月ぐらい前に、あのえいがをみました"
mechakucha
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu 09.01.2005 7:24 pm

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby Harisenbon » Thu 09.15.2005 6:41 pm

you got the verb right, but one month ago would be
一ヶ月前くらい、あの映画を観た。
Want to learn Japanese the right way? How about for free?
Ippatsu // Japanesetesting.com
User avatar
Harisenbon
 
Posts: 2964
Joined: Tue 06.14.2005 3:24 am
Location: Gifu, Japan
Native language: (poor) English

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby mechakucha » Fri 09.16.2005 12:01 am

Thanks for pointing out that mistake.
mechakucha
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu 09.01.2005 7:24 pm

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby lomagu » Fri 09.16.2005 5:26 am

Like Harisenbon said, ている is always present. It's not always present progressive though. If I remember correctly, present progressive has "ing" ending? Sometimes in Japanese, verbs ending in ている don't always translate to "V-ing" in English. For example, "I remember" is 覚えている, "I know" is sometimes 分かっている or "it's right/correct" is 合っている. I'm pretty sure how that's how that goes anyway. I'm still working on verb tenses myself. ;)
The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.☆-D.Adams
User avatar
lomagu
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Sun 05.08.2005 6:11 am

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby zengargoyle » Fri 09.16.2005 7:29 am

one of my favorite books Japanese the Manga Way: an Illustrated Guide to Japanese Grammar & Structure explains ーている like this (condensed version):

In effect, the use of iru ("exists") as a helping verb implies either that the action of the -te form verb "exists" (i.e., continues in progress: "is/are ~ing") or that the result of its action "exists" (i.e., the action resulted in a change of state that persists: "has/have ~"). With certain verbs, especially those that represent momentary action ..., the English equivalent may need to vary ("is/are ~" or ordinary present/past tense, etc.).


colloquial: ーている contracts to ーてる

"is/are ~ing"
(said by a lady after sneezing)
世の中 の 男 が みんあ 私 の こと を うわさしている わ。
yo no naka no otoko ga minna watashi no koto o uwasa shite iru wa.
the world of men (subj.) all I/me of things (obj.) are talking (fem.)
The men of the world all are talking about me.
All the men in the world are talking about me.

"has/have done the action"
(boss wants to know if employee had read the manuscript before giving it to the client)
B: 君 は この 原稿 を 読んでいた の か?
kimi wa kono genkou o yonde ita no ka?
you as for this manuscript/copy (obj.) had read (explan.) (?)
Had you read this copy?!
E: 読んでいました。
yonde imashita.
had read.
Yes, I had.

"momentary action"
(sleepy person telling somebody they can come in)
ハーイ、 ドア 開いてる よ。
haai, doa aiteru yo.
yes door is open (emph.)
Ye-e-es, the door is open.

(a disclosure ...)
彼女 を 愛している。
kanojo o aishite iru.
she/her (obj.) love
I love her.
User avatar
zengargoyle
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun 05.29.2005 10:16 pm

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby mechakucha » Fri 09.16.2005 10:43 pm

Thanks a lot. So it basically depends on context whether ~teiru follows the ~ing form or the has/have done action. Those pointers were very helpful.:)
mechakucha
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu 09.01.2005 7:24 pm

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby ryuubu » Mon 09.26.2005 9:23 pm

Just takes a little rewording, as the literal English translations don't always sound too great.
ryuubu
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri 09.09.2005 4:12 am

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby Mukade » Wed 09.28.2005 11:48 pm

Just a piece of advice: don't expect Japanese verb conjugations and English verb conjugations to always line up neatly. If you ever study linguistics, you'll find that linguists don't even use the same terminology to talk about verbs in the two languages.

Technically, English verbs are conjugated to reflect a temporal state. Japanese verbs, on the other hand, are conjugated to reflect an emotional state. So the English verbs have tenses, whereas the Japanese verbs have moods.

This may all seem like splitting hairs, but this is a pretty big difference in the way verbs are psychologically understood by English native speakers vs. Japanese native speakers. In fact, the whole mood thing is usually so alien to English speakers that they never fully grasp the concept (I know I didn't).

Anyway, even if you don't understand it, realize that the different verb forms in Japanese are referred to using English grammatical terms (past tense, present tense, progressive, etc.) only out of a matter of convenience. Don't make the assumption that this means they are directly equivalent.

----

And as an aside:

Harisenbon - "Past perfect" would be something like "I had done..."
The form you see in "I had been doing..." is "Past Progressive." ;)
User avatar
Mukade
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri 02.18.2005 3:30 am
Location: Osaka
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: ~te iru as Present Progressive or Present Perfect?

Postby coco » Thu 09.29.2005 2:08 am

iroirona wrote:
So how would you say,
"I had seen that movie about a month ago"
Would this be correct?: "1か月ぐらい前に、あのえいがをみました"


your sentence is correct.

1か月ぐらい前に、あのえいがをみました。
1か月くらい前に、あのえいがをみました。


we both use ぐらい/くらい. 
coco
 
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon 05.30.2005 12:43 am
Location: 東京都
Native language: 日本語(Japanese)


Return to Grammar Questions and Problems

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests