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particles???

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RE: particles???

Postby Justin » Mon 08.29.2005 6:47 pm

Kates wrote:
It's bunREI. :O

Wouldn't 例文 be slightly better? 文例 I guess is really the same thing, but I think 例文is probably the better choice.
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RE: particles???

Postby Daichi » Tue 08.30.2005 8:31 am

Arimasu means 'to exist (for non-living things).
Toshokan ga arimasu. There is a library.
Watashi no heya de terebi ga arimasu. There is a TV in my room.


Although it literally means 'to exist', arimasu is often used in the sense of 'to have'.
ie. Watashi no heya de terebi ga arimasu would often be translated as I have a TV in my room

Perhaps this isn't a great example, as the two translations are just as acceptable, but there are situations where 'to have' is a better translation.
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RE: particles???

Postby Kates » Tue 08.30.2005 9:55 am

Justin: Damn, and I thought I was sounding smart. >_< haha

Daichi: arimasu =/= to have ... Or, at least, I don't think it should be thought of in that way. English just happens to say "HAVE" when we really mean "exist." If people equate arimasu with have, then they're going to start saying "kaze ga arimasu" for "I have a cold."

A TV exists in my room is just a funny way of saying I have a TV in my room. So, you're right... we typically say "have"... I'm just afraid saying arimasu can mean 'to have' is going to get people thinking about it wrong. >.<
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RE: particles???

Postby Supergrunch » Tue 08.30.2005 12:08 pm

Why not simply "a TV is in my room"?
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RE: particles???

Postby mandolin » Tue 08.30.2005 1:05 pm

Supergrunch wrote:
Why not simply "a TV is in my room"?


You could. :)

I think the trouble comes in.. hrm... how to say this. OK... "A TV is in my room" is an accurate literal translation. But most english speakers wouldn't just say that out of the blue. Suzie won't say to Kate, "A TV is in my room!"

She's more likely to say "I have a TV in my room!"

They mean the same thing... one is more natural than the other, though. Usually when trying to translate (like for Anime subtitles or whatever) you'll translate the meaning, not the words...

It makes it difficult for learning purposes, though, since both are correct. Just the 'natural' sentence will not correlate directly to the japanese word for word.

I hate grey areas. :P
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RE: particles???

Postby Supergrunch » Tue 08.30.2005 2:42 pm

I find the best way to think about Japanese is to alienate it completely from English. This removes equivilance problems, and also, IMHO, helps you string together sentences faster.
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RE: particles???

Postby sakura_joshin » Tue 08.30.2005 6:07 pm

Definetly. It's hard to learn any language- particualry a language as diffirent as japanese- when you are constantly comparing it to English. I learned that the hard way- it's frustrating to try to understand particles by comparing them to english.

But I think I just reiterated what you said.
Last edited by sakura_joshin on Tue 08.30.2005 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: particles???

Postby Kuroneko-chan » Sun 09.18.2005 12:35 pm

Kates wrote:
It's bunREI. :O What he means is 'desu' is used for "X = Y" sentences.
Watashi ha gakusei desu. I am a student. (I = student -- they are the same/equal)
Ringo ha oishii desu. Apples are delicious. (Apples = delicious -- again, equal)

Arimasu means 'to exist (for non-living things).
Toshokan ga arimasu. There is a library.
Watashi no heya de terebi ga arimasu. There is a TV in my room.

Imasu is 'to exist (for living things).
Tanaka-san ha toshokan ni imasu. Tanaka-san is in the library.
Isu no shita ni neko ga imasu. There is a cat under the chair.

How was that?



First I want to say SORRY for not replying sooner -__-;;
Thanks for the example. It really did help but I'm now I'm not sure when to use desu and when to use imasu. If imasu is for living things and arimasu is for non-living things, is desu used when speaking about yourself? I know I must be annoying you by now...
Oh and my book says bunkei. ::shrugs::
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RE: particles???

Postby skrhgh3b » Sun 09.18.2005 2:27 pm

hm. i'm sometimes afraid wa and ga are one of those little areas of japanese that a non-native speaker will probably never truly master. but we can at least get good at it, eh?
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RE: particles???

Postby Kates » Sun 09.18.2005 2:44 pm

Think of desu as an equal sign.
Ringo ha oishii desu. (Think: ringo (apple) = delicious)
Watashi ha yasashii desu. (Think: I = kind)

And imasu is more like 'is, are'... perhaps more in a LOCATION kind of sense.
Ringo ha teburu no ue ni arimasu. (The apple is on the table. -- It's LOCATION is on the table.)
Watashi ha apaato ni imasu. (I am in my apartment. -- my LOCATION is in my apartment... it is not like I = apartment)

I sure hope that helps some more. ^^;
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RE: particles???

Postby Kuroneko-chan » Thu 09.22.2005 8:35 pm

I think I understand now ^__^
Another question? In my book it says:
Future desho may be
Does that mean that is I were going to say Sono gaijin wa hen desu [that foreigner is odd] but I wanted to say That foreigner may be odd, would I say Sono gaijin wa hen desho?
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