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Japanese Home Coming and Dances

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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Infidel » Tue 10.02.2007 2:20 pm

I don't know about you, but I didn't go to school because of school spirit. I showed up because I didn't have a choice in the matter. I don't know of anyone I ever met that went to school out of school spirit. I never got how people could feel school spirit for a school they didn't choose to attend. It's more like slave pride if you ask me. It's so dumb only humans do it.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby two_heads_talking » Tue 10.02.2007 2:58 pm

equating slave pride to going to school is an interesting but highly unequivicable comparison.

However, it does remind me that the ignorance of people is equated to their level of dedication to education.

while I never looked at being in school as akin to being in prison, I suppose that is your choice in the matter. however, your lack of school spirit for sports, education etc, does not negate the fact that it exists.

I suppose you also feel that way of higher education? or does that change because one chooses to go to that school? in that case, if one can feel spirit for college level due to choice, what of the person who dedicates his energy to the school by choice? Even if one doesn't have the opportunity to pick a school (I mean really how many of us do?) they do have the opportunity to feel pride in the establishment. Or, Infidel, are you so old that you can't remember that? Or were you the one pissing and moaning because there was another game to attend where you didn't care because you didn't play sports? Or, were you that one person on the sports team cause mom and dad were still trying to live vicariously through you?

Hell, I never picked the school I went to, but I played sports and I for one never wanted the other team to win just because of that.

I am really not sure where your angst comes from, but I pity you for it. no spirit, no competitive edge, no emotion, no feeling.. get the idea?
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby katafei » Tue 10.02.2007 4:06 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
Remember Hogwarts? Aside from the Triwizard Tournament in book 4, the emphasis was always much more on the houses competing with each other than it was Hogwarts. vs other schools. There was a lot more pride in being a Gryffindor or a Slytherin than there was being a Hogwarts student.

Interesting point, but I also think boarding school might encompass different aspects from ordinary schools. It's where the kids live, slightly more than just a place you go at daytime to learn what other people think is useful knowledge.

In Holland we don't have 'homecoming' afaik, and certainly no 'school spirit'.
There will be parties every now and then, of course.

However, I do remember that at junior school we would compete once a week with the other group of the same grade in subjects as 'mental arithmetics' and 'dictation' (a kind of written spelling bee).
But I think that was mostly because the two teachers didn't like each other and wanted to show off their pupils :D
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Shirasagi » Thu 10.04.2007 7:12 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
What school in the US has marching bands in elementary school that play for the school undokai's?


But how does that show school spirit? The school has a band. The undokai is an event. Thus, the school band plays at the event. There's nothing to distinguish the band at one school from that of another, as they all wear their P.E. uniforms and red/white hats.

as for why is it terrible not to have school spirit? my own opinion is that without commitment to a school, an organization, fraternity etc, without that spirit and dedication what is there? just showing up and going through the motions with nothing to be motivated about is akin to eating oatmeal dry. it can be done but it's so stupid that only horses do it.


Wow, way to alienate folk of differing opinions!

I loved the idea (or perhaps the ideal) of school. Learning something, studying things, I absolutely loved that, worked hard at it, and was good at it. But I never had "school spirit". Mainly because the guys involved in the biggest expressions of school spirit (sports and dances) thought very little of me, and I thought little of them in return. Why go to some game and cheer for guys who would coldly blow me off at best and go out of their way to give me a hard time at worst?

And in college? Well, there was the time I allowed myself to feel pride at my school making it to the NCAA Basketball Final Four. Then the allegations of academic fraud and sexual misconduct cover-ups came to light, and all of their records for a six year period (covering most of the time I was there) were expunged. So, screw college athletics.

Absolutely loved learning, though. Put a lot of time into it. Would have done the same no matter where I went.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Mike Cash » Thu 10.04.2007 7:18 am

Shirasagi wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:
What school in the US has marching bands in elementary school that play for the school undokai's?


But how does that show school spirit? The school has a band. The undokai is an event. Thus, the school band plays at the event. There's nothing to distinguish the band at one school from that of another, as they all wear their P.E. uniforms and red/white hats.


That would come as news to my daughter. She's in the elementary school band and they changed from their P.E. uniforms to their band outfits for their performance at the 運動会.

We also recently enjoyed our city's third annual Marching Band Festival, with bands from all the elementary, junior high, and high schools in the city, as well as a few from a neighboring city. They all had different uniforms.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Infidel » Thu 10.04.2007 9:10 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
equating slave pride to going to school is an interesting but highly unequivicable comparison.


not as much as you might think.

However, it does remind me that the ignorance of people is equated to their level of
while I never looked at being in school as akin to being in prison, I suppose that is your choice in the matter. however, your lack of school spirit for sports, education etc, does not negate the fact that it exists.


There is no school spirit in education. All of the school spirit is in frills, like sports. Sports has nothing to do with education, ergo, that's why all the jocks and other idiots can feel proud, because it's something even they they can do.

I suppose you also feel that way of higher education? or does that change because one chooses to go to that school? in that case, if one can feel spirit for college level due to choice, what of the person who dedicates his energy to the school by choice? Even if one doesn't have the opportunity to pick a school (I mean really how many of us do?) they do have the opportunity to feel pride in the establishment. Or, Infidel, are you so old that you can't remember that? Or were you the one pissing and moaning because there was another game to attend where you didn't care because you didn't play sports? Or, were you that one person on the sports team cause mom and dad were still trying to live vicariously through you?


Considering that I had to be physically dragged to school by police officers, I don't see your point. How could I possibly feel pride in something that I was physically forced to do against my will. The only pride I felt was when someone else in my school sabotaged something so that school let out early. I hate sports, so being at another game would just be more suck with different uniforms. Of course higher education is different as I chose to be there, and the teachers are actually competent for the most part. Of course, I don't go to colleges with sports teams so there is little "school spirit" going around.

I did get forced by my dad to play baseball, and I immediately tore my knee out of socket when I swung the bat wrong, because no one showed me the right way, they just assumed I would know. I later was forced to play basketball with the school team, but no one explained the rules, they just tossed me into a game at a school meet, when I stepped backwards over the halfline because I was surrounded,I was booed then tossed off the team. When I was a kid, I was forced to play soccer. The team thought it would be funny to tie me up and practice kicking me instead of the ball so that I got stuck in the hospital. My father used to watch football on the tv. He would actually stand up and shout encouragements at the TV like they could hear them. Fisking jock. How am I supposed to respect this behavior, much less feel pride when all I feel is disgust. When those other kids came and beat me up, just for my lunch money, my notes, just to harass me. Guess what, they played football. I swear, being brain damaged asshat is a pre-requisite for becoming a jock.

It's a sad fact that the number of 1 on 1 fights I've been in I can count on 1 hand, but the number of 10 or more on me fights I've been in, I've lost count, and I'm not bragging either. I rarely even bruised one of the crowd before they took me down. The only silver lining is that kids are more interested in inflicting pain and shame than dealing damage. But they all played team sports. Go team.

Thank you no, I can do well enough without having to deal with people with so much false pride. I hate team sports with unbridled passion. Fisk the team and the school. If I play a sport, it's going to be tennis and I will feel personal pride in my accomplishments. My school deserves no gratitude for hindering me. As it was, when the option was available, I chose band to get off the stupid team sports.

Hell, I never picked the school I went to, but I played sports and I for one never wanted the other team to win just because of that.
I didn't care who won, I just wanted the game to freaking end. I would hapilly lose a game just to make it end quicker.

I am really not sure where your angst comes from, but I pity you for it. no spirit, no competitive edge, no emotion, no feeling.. get the idea?


Rather to say, no FALSE spirit, not pretense of a competetive edge, no false emotion. You get the idea? I can't feel pride is something that hindered me. I feel pride in my education, because I was able to educate myself in spite of all the difficulties, which included the teachers.
Last edited by Infidel on Thu 10.04.2007 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Hijiku » Thu 10.04.2007 10:53 am

WOW that is one long post!

my school is in the midst of 'spirit week'. our school colors are blue and silver, so during this week people are giving themselvs a William Wallce sort of look about them, what with face paint. the Pep Ralley ended a moment ago. imagine about 400+ people all blue and silver, screaming out war crys and thrusting their clenched fists into the air chanting "MORRIS! MORRIS! MORRIS!".

thats just about the jist of our pep ralley. coupled with a soccer team showing up, and preforming for us angry, irate, and sugar-high students of Mt. Morris High.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 10.04.2007 11:03 am

Shirasagi wrote:


Absolutely loved learning, though. Put a lot of time into it. Would have done the same no matter where I went.


Having school spirit isn't limited to just sports, although that's where you will see the majority of it. It extends to all aspects including academics.

As to alienating someone of a differing opinion, well, one would only be alienated if they were offended. And if someone were offended because their opinion was different than mine, there might be other issues there that need to be worked out. Never, ever be offended because someone has a difference of opinion. It is those differences that make us unique and otherwise not a bunch of robots ..
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 10.04.2007 11:13 am

Shirasagi wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:
What school in the US has marching bands in elementary school that play for the school undokai's?


But how does that show school spirit? The school has a band. The undokai is an event. Thus, the school band plays at the event. There's nothing to distinguish the band at one school from that of another, as they all wear their P.E. uniforms and red/white hats..


Mike answered this pretty well, but I will add. Most of the schools that I encountered had uniforms and school colors. As Mike mentioned the P.E. uniforms and the band uniforms were the school colors. In fact the two elementary schools that were located near where my apartments were in Iwanuma (just south of Sendai) and South Sendai, the P.E. uniforms were worn when they were practicing.

I can only speak from my experience, but Elementary school bands did have school colors as part of their uniforms. I have no idea about the red and white hats as the hats would also be the same color as the P.E. uniform.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Shirasagi » Thu 10.04.2007 11:37 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
As to alienating someone of a differing opinion, well, one would only be alienated if they were offended.


I don't buy that premise in the first place, but let us continue.

And if someone were offended because their opinion was different than mine, there might be other issues there that need to be worked out. Never, ever be offended because someone has a difference of opinion. It is those differences that make us unique and otherwise not a bunch of robots ..


I have absolutely no problem with difference of opinion. It's the being obliquely compared to stupid horses that makes me say, "What the hell?"

For example:
THT - School spirit is great! It enriches the school experience!
Me - Well, that's fine if it works for you. I disagree, but mileage varies.

On the other hand...

THT - School spirit is great! It enriches the school experience! What is there without commitment to a school? Just going through the motions! Which is stupid! So stupid only a horse would do something like it!
Me - What the hell?

That said, Infidel is somewhere far, far from me on this issue.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 10.04.2007 1:35 pm

Infidel wrote:


Considering that I had to be physically dragged to school by police officers, I don't see your point. .


that explains alot

Infidel wrote:
The only pride I felt was when someone else in my school sabotaged something so that school let out early. I hate sports, so being at another game would just be more suck with different uniforms. .


there are underlieing issues here that you mention later. issues that are best dealt with my someone with a phd.

Infidel wrote:I did get forced by my dad to play baseball, and I immediately tore my knee out of socket when I swung the bat wrong, because no one showed me the right way, they just assumed I would know. I later was forced to play basketball with the school team, but no one explained the rules, they just tossed me into a game at a school meet, when I stepped backwards over the halfline because I was surrounded,I was booed then tossed off the team. When I was a kid, I was forced to play soccer. The team thought it would be funny to tie me up and practice kicking me instead of the ball so that I got stuck in the hospital. My father used to watch football on the tv. He would actually stand up and shout encouragements at the TV like they could hear them. Fisking jock. How am I supposed to respect this behavior, much less feel pride when all I feel is disgust. When those other kids came and beat me up, just for my lunch money, my notes, just to harass me. Guess what, they played football. I swear, being brain damaged asshat is a pre-requisite for becoming a jock. .


ok you aren't a jock. no worries. non of us did this to you.. it seems to me that you need to deal with the people that "forced" you into this. comeing to terms with that could help you alot.

Like I said, this thread really has you on edge. my suggestion is work it out with those who caused you the pain/concern you have. if you can't work it out with them, let it go. this kind of "agnst" is just over the top.

Shirasagi wrote:

For example:
THT - School spirit is great! It enriches the school experience!
Me - Well, that's fine if it works for you. I disagree, but mileage varies.

On the other hand...

THT - School spirit is great! It enriches the school experience! What is there without commitment to a school? Just going through the motions! Which is stupid! So stupid only a horse would do something like it!
Me - What the hell?.


No reason to ask WTH? unless at the beginning of that I specifically called out someone by name. but hey, your mileage may vary. Either way, don't get too excited about my opinion. I am a horse's ass sometimes, and other times, a jackass, but in the end, I am me and there is little I can do about it.. :D
Last edited by two_heads_talking on Thu 10.04.2007 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Infidel » Sat 10.06.2007 3:11 am

two_heads_talking wrote:

ok you aren't a jock. no worries. non of us did this to you.. it seems to me that you need to deal with the people that "forced" you into this. comeing to terms with that could help you alot.

Like I said, this thread really has you on edge. my suggestion is work it out with those who caused you the pain/concern you have. if you can't work it out with them, let it go. this kind of "agnst" is just over the top.


It's so typical to blame the victim. This isn't my problem, it's the system. If you support the system, if you are a cog in the great machine, then you are nothing less than an accomplice. It's so obvious and takes such little thought to observe that people's ignorance can be nothing less than deliberate.

It's very simple. By definition, when you elevate one thing relative to another, the other is lowered relative to the first. Thus, the more pride one has in one thing, the more disdain felt, up to and including hatred, for the that which is not included.

If you are proud of your race, you look down on other races. If your pride is strong enough you actively hate or are disgusted with other races. The more pride you have in your grammar the more disgust you feel for people with poor grammar. The more pride you have in your religion, the more hate you have for people of other religions. The more pride you have in your school, the more you hate people from other schools. It doesn't matter what group you are a part of, if you have pride in your group, then you disdain those outside your group.

The problem with School Pride is it just encourages hate for the different. Children are taught that they should make themselves better, but only so they can put others down. It rewards this negative behavior by crowds of cheering people and prizes. Children come from this experience believing people outside the group should be treated negatively and instills an "Us vs Them" mentality they take beyond the classroom and apply it in real life. This isn't a local problem I had. It didn't matter where I went people act the same. This isn't a problem dependent on a few people, but is endemic of a system that promotes hatred as a virtue.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby dmizer » Sat 10.06.2007 4:35 am

Wow ... that's exceedingly pessimistic.

If you have pride, that does not mean you look down on everything else. Pride does not exclude respect. It is perfectly natural to have pride in things. It's part of human nature, not a result of the system's influence.

Pride also does not exclude admiration. You may have pride in your own school, but that doesn't mean you can't admire the tenacity of another school's team.

Just because I'm proud of my own country doesn't mean I don't respect and admire other cultures and peoples.

Sure, the education system has lots of problems and needs help, but I surely don't think that school pride is one of the problems. Actually, I would go so far as to say that a growing LACK of school pride is a problem.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby Infidel » Sat 10.06.2007 6:41 am

Wow ... that's exceedingly pessimistic.


not at all.
If you have pride, that does not mean you look down on everything else.

yes it does.

Pride does not exclude respect.

It depends on the amount of pride. A little bit of pride and you might still consider the other an equal. It's like a see-saw. You start level, you go up a little but your eyes are still level. You go up a lot and you are looking down your nose.

It is perfectly natural to have pride in things. It's part of human nature, not a result of the system's influence.


It is the system that actively encourages excessive pride, and encourages division rather than cohesion. Divide from the different and fight. Instead of take the different in and become stronger. As you said. It's already part of human nature, so we don't need to be instilling more than the default level.

Every action has both positive and negative consequences. That is why no action is inherently good or bad. Everything is a matter of context and morality is the attempt to understand this interaction of action and consequence. Amorality is taking everything at face value and giving no thought to the consequences of an action.

Arguing in favor of School Pride as if it were inherently good deserves a rebuttal. Just as any other argument arguing for any other action as inherently good deserves a rebuttal. "It's better to give than receive" deserves a rebuttal, because there is certainly a point where giving becomes socially and personally destructive and receiving is better. Again, no action is inherently good or bad.
Last edited by Infidel on Sat 10.06.2007 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Japanese Home Coming and Dances

Postby two_heads_talking » Mon 10.08.2007 10:12 am

I actually was going to comment on this, but I think we have gone so far off topic that this needs locked.
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