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They tell you me can spell?

英語を勉強している方のためのフォーラムです。練習のために英語の文章を投稿してもかまわなく、英語の文法・語彙に関する質問をしてもけっこうです。

RE: They tell you me can spell?

Postby Noob » Sat 10.27.2007 11:23 pm

You just don't realize how tough english can be, to learn, if your a native speaker.
Take this for example.
Thank you (plural?)for all of your replies.


Thank you all, for your replies.
Thank You all, for the replies.
thank you everyone, for all of your replies.
thank you for your replies, everyone.
thank you for all of your replies everybody.
thank you evrybody, for the replies.

There are more ways to say it, but they all say the same thing. I thought japanese was hard. :|
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RE: They tell you me can spell?

Postby miaumiao » Sun 10.28.2007 7:55 am

This thread seems to have settled itself now (TJPers are really fast); I wanted to at least respond to Cocoさん’s welcome and thought about dropping the rest, but since I already wrote some things during the time yesterday that I didn’t have an internet connection, I thought I might as well…
So regard this as old info:

Thank you for the welcome, Cocoさん. :D

It occurred later to me that you also might have had a problem with the non-specific “you”. An indication to this could be possibly seen in your statement, when you rephrased the two possibilities of understanding that sentence into Japanese:
1)日本(出身の何人か)の友人は、ひらがなでなんでも書けると(あなたに?)言います。
2)日本(出身の何人か)の友人は、(あなたは)ひらがなでなんでも書けると(私に)言います。


My level of the Japanese language is very low, but seeing that you wrote both (あなた) and (私), I was almost sure that the non-specific “you” might have generated a problem of understanding. Too bad I didn’t notice it right away, since I ignored the Japanese-written passage cited above.

I think the characters that you are not familiar with look like symbols. For instance, Greek alphabet, especially lowercase characters look like symbols to me. People who don't know Japanese letters might think ひらがな are symbols.
So I was wondering what kind of 漢字 looks like symbols.


I think I understand what you are saying. At least I believe that you are taking the words by their explicit meaning, as it should usually be. For this case though, seeing in the other thread that the OP had very little knowledge of the written Japanese language, I assumed that the next step he was talking about after learning the “easy” ひらがな, was to take on the “difficult” symbols and characters. Well, I could only think of two things: カタカナ and 漢字. Since I judged katakana to be on the same difficulty level as hiragana, I assumed that the difficult symbols and characters he was talking about were kanji in general. But this can only make sense if he created a new undefined, vague term that falls into the category of both symbols and characters, as if he was talking about something unknown to him. That all of course, is based on assumption.

Well, this is it: A long story told, all because of a short sentence :).
I still do not know for sure if I got this right, because other comments on this were brief. I think Wakannai said the same or something similar, so there is a chance I did not misinterpret things here :)

Any corrections are welcome!
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RE: They tell you me can spell?

Postby coco » Mon 10.29.2007 4:37 am

I can learn many things from your replies. Your replies reminded me some interesting commentson the else thread.It says kanji could be a sign or a symbol.

A native speaker Kohyin-san says "I have been looking at them as symbols."
Oyaji-san says "I think a nice big 「危」 is much more effective than "Abunai" or "Kiken" would be."
I agree with them.

The point is that characters, not only 漢字 but also カタカナ and ひらがな, can be a symbol of something to a native speaker also. This is new to me.

I don't think I can say what I think in my poor English, but let me try.

I understand that Japanese 文字 ( ひらがな、カタカナ 漢字) are Characters rather than symbols because 文字 are elements/components to visualize/spell Japanese words/language. (I'm not sure if this is same thought as yours or not, though.)

On the one hand, every symbol has it's own meaning or role in it, like SS-san shows. Cmmonly, every symbol is independent. There are so many symbols in the world. When you see something, can't find it as a character, you might think it as a symbol(記号)/mark(印) which meanings you don't know yet.

漢字 also has some meanings with each character. Some people say 漢字 is an ideogram. Therefore 危 can be a symbol (or sign, icon) of danger or something. Even Japanese native speakers don't know( or don't care) how to pronounce it, like kohyin-san says on that thread.
My assumption is that 危 became a symbol from an ideogram, in this case. If you can say " 危 symbolizes crisis situations, and it can be used as a symbol ( 「危」は危機的状況を「象徴」し、「記号」としても用いられる)", I think I can understand why some people love to get 漢字 tattoo with in meaningless order. Probably they just try to put some symbols ( not characters) in random order. They might not need pronunciations, just like 危 sign doesn't need it....I might be wrong. ;)

My obsession with "symbol" came from Constitution of Japan, Capter 1- article 1. This is one of my longstanding problems.

Thank You all, for the replies.
(Noob-san, your post helps me lot, thank you.I chose the shortest one. :) )
Last edited by coco on Mon 10.29.2007 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: They tell you me can spell?

Postby ss » Mon 10.29.2007 10:27 am

ここさん wrote:
I understand that Japanese 文字 ( ひらがな、カタカナ 漢字) are Characters rather than symbols because 文字 are elements/components to visualize/spell Japanese words/language. (I'm not sure if this is same thought as yours or not, though.)

On the one hand, every symbol has it's own meaning or role in it, like SS-san shows. Cmmonly, every symbol is independent. There are so many symbols in the world. When you see something, can't find it as a character, you might think it as a symbol(記号)/mark(印) which meanings you don't know yet.


Let’s say, I consider these ♪ ♭ ¶ ♯ C♯ D♭ as symbols.
Recognizing these symbols is one thing, the fact that all these symbols (notes/signs) have actually a given name (character文字 + pronunciation 発音).

♪ ♭ ¶ ♯ C♯ D♭ → 音符 おんぷ

this音符 ♪ alone consists of three 名称
black dot ● → 符頭 たま
vertical line┃→ 符幹 ぼう
wavy tail → 符尾 はた

Then we have mathematics signs
88円+9円=97円
1358円÷97円=14個
+ (たす) - (ひく) × (かける) ÷ (わる) =(は)
% → パーセント
ton → トン
km → キロメートル
kg → キログラム
cm → センチメートル
ml → ミリメートル
l → リットル
( ) → 括弧 かっこ

so on and so forth .....

The obstacles in the way of mastering a foreign language is by no means an easy task, it can be a confusing and frustrating process, yet very fun to learn them.
I wish I had a good brain to store all the pronunciations. (>_<)
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RE: They tell you me can spell?

Postby Gundaetiapo » Mon 10.29.2007 7:26 pm

There are written symbols and there are metaphorical symbols. Examples:

"This gift is a symbol of our friendship."
"A marriage ring symbolizes love between two people."
"A dove is sometimes used as a symbol for peace."

Hope that helps.
Last edited by Gundaetiapo on Mon 10.29.2007 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: They tell you me can spell?

Postby Noob » Mon 10.29.2007 9:39 pm

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