Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?
Post Reply
User avatar
ss
Posts: 1656
Joined: Fri 11.18.2005 10:07 am
Native language: English speaking family

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by ss » Sun 10.28.2007 10:48 pm

There's a joke about an angry policeman scolding a burglar.

Policeman: りょうしんはありますか 
Burglar : いいえ、ありません。 
Policeman: Hopeless!!!
Spoiler:
良心 vs 両親

JaySee
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat 08.04.2007 12:04 am
Native language: Dutch
Gender: Male
Location: Tokyo

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by JaySee » Mon 10.29.2007 2:39 pm

Mike Cash wrote:

Your guess is correct; I did not. Upon reviewing the thread, though, I revised my redundant piling-on (not "mistake"). It would appear to me that in failing to notice I had edited my post before taking me to task you were yourself displaying the same lack of diligence. If I weren't an American and therefore incapable of recognizing it, I would probably consider that a prime example of irony.

My arrogance is gratuitous. What was yours based on?
I don't really see the irony either I must say. When I was typing my reply your original post was still on my screen so I did in fact read all the posts before I replied, I just didn't know/expect you were coincidently editing your post... which is something that doesn't strike me as odd given the fact that your original post had already been there like that for a few hours. And as for the arrogance, it seems to be somewhat contagious ¬_¬
Harisenbon wrote:
Perhaps I'm not completeing understanding what you 're saying here, but how does a knowledge of the alphabet translate into knowing how to write most words? Most alphabets are not completely phonetic, and create pronunciations through combinations of letters that oftentimes have overlap. Only knowing A-Z, and no words, do you think it would be possible to spell Phone (fone), Etymology (Ehtimalowgee), etc?
I must admit you can't be completely certain, which is why I said 'fairly accurate'. Also, while the alphabet in most languages isn't used completely phonetically, they generally are used much more phonetically than in English. Even in English though there are more rules than you might expect (which is why chikara's 'ghoti' example is nice as a joke but of course completely unrealistic; 'gh' for example might be pronounced as 'f' in certain instances but these instances aren't completely random. If you know the most common values of each letter or letter combination in English I'd say there is quite a good chance you'd spell 'fish' correctly when you have never seen it written down before).
While difficult to correctly predict which kanji are used in new words that you hear, it is by far impossible. The first time I heard 電車を解体します, I could tell you exactly what kanji were being used in かいたい, because of the context, even though I had never hear the word before. The same can be send for words like 飲食 and 植物 which as long as you have some context for the word, are fairly easy to put kanji to.
Okay, I admit I was wrong to say that it is impossible, but not all kanji compound words are made up of kanji that are so indicative of the meaning of the word as a whole I think (真剣, 経済 etc), not to mention many place/personal names or words with ateji.
Last edited by JaySee on Mon 10.29.2007 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
leergierig
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon 12.19.2005 6:09 pm

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by leergierig » Mon 10.29.2007 2:43 pm

chikara baffled me with:
Edit: One of my favourite foods is ghoughpteighbteau
OK, You win. I've tried to decipher this, but I gave up. I know I will probably kick myself once I do know, but what is it supposed to be?

gh - f?
ou - as in foul or joule?
pt - t?
ei - as in receive?
bt - t?
eau - as in beautiful or bureau?

Edit: Don't worry. I'm kicking myself already. I must've been blind.
Last edited by leergierig on Mon 10.29.2007 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
chikara
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue 07.11.2006 10:48 pm
Native language: English (Australian)
Gender: Male
Location: Australia (SA)
Contact:

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by chikara » Mon 10.29.2007 6:58 pm

gh - p as in hiccough
ough - o as in though
pt - t as on ptomaine
eigh - a as in neigh
bt - t as in debt
eau - o as in bureau
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there

User avatar
Chris Hart
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed 07.05.2006 3:36 pm
Location: 未確認飛行物体

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Chris Hart » Mon 10.29.2007 7:17 pm

How about this fun one:
ea - as in read (present or future) or read (past)?

I remember a Gallagher skit describing this problem in English, though I can't remember it's name. (I heard it on XM)
-.. .   -.- -.-. ---.. ..- ..-. ...-


User avatar
Mike Cash
Posts: 2737
Joined: Sun 08.20.2006 3:38 am
Native language: English

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Mike Cash » Tue 10.30.2007 5:29 am

Chris Hart wrote:
How about this fun one:
ea - as in read (present or future) or read (past)?

I remember a Gallagher skit describing this problem in English, though I can't remember it's name. (I heard it on XM)
I wish I could recall the fellow's name, but a comedian recently commented that real comedians think of Gallagher the way real vampires think of Count Chocula.
Never underestimate my capacity for pettiness.

Wakannai
Posts: 658
Joined: Thu 10.18.2007 6:38 am

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Wakannai » Tue 10.30.2007 6:48 am

Many of Gallagher's verbal jokes depend on the ignorance of the audience. e.g. "Why is it called a driveway when you park on it and a parkway when you drive on it." etc..

hint, the term driveway is older than the car.
Last edited by Wakannai on Tue 10.30.2007 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Chris Hart
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed 07.05.2006 3:36 pm
Location: 未確認飛行物体

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Chris Hart » Tue 10.30.2007 9:20 am

Mike Cash wrote:
Chris Hart wrote:
How about this fun one:
ea - as in read (present or future) or read (past)?

I remember a Gallagher skit describing this problem in English, though I can't remember it's name. (I heard it on XM)
I wish I could recall the fellow's name, but a comedian recently commented that real comedians think of Gallagher the way real vampires think of Count Chocula.
I take it you don't like the Sledge-o-Matic. :)
I was referencing that skit simply due to it's linguistic commentary.
-.. .   -.- -.-. ---.. ..- ..-. ...-


Christian_
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue 06.21.2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Christian_ » Tue 10.30.2007 11:58 am

Chris Hart wrote:
You are right, uber_geekさん, it is best to learn kana first, then move to kanji. Just remember to study words, not just kanji.
I'm going to try doing that this time around. It didn't happen in one day, but I used to be able to call forth all the readings and meanings of the JLPT 4 Kanji, but I didn't know any words. Hopefully though, all that used energy didn't go to waste.

User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Native language: English
Gender: Male
Location: Indiana
Contact:

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by AJBryant » Tue 10.30.2007 2:42 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
I wish I could recall the fellow's name, but a comedian recently commented that real comedians think of Gallagher the way real vampires think of Count Chocula.
Now that's funny.

And probably VERY true.



Tony

User avatar
Mike Cash
Posts: 2737
Joined: Sun 08.20.2006 3:38 am
Native language: English

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Mike Cash » Tue 10.30.2007 2:44 pm

Chris Hart wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:
Chris Hart wrote:
How about this fun one:
ea - as in read (present or future) or read (past)?

I remember a Gallagher skit describing this problem in English, though I can't remember it's name. (I heard it on XM)
I wish I could recall the fellow's name, but a comedian recently commented that real comedians think of Gallagher the way real vampires think of Count Chocula.
I take it you don't like the Sledge-o-Matic. :)
I was referencing that skit simply due to it's linguistic commentary.
I offered no personal opinion on Gallagher or what he does. I'm not familiar enough with him to have one. I recently had to do some googling and you-tubing just to find out who the heck he is. Try to remember that for the most part I don't know anything from American entertainment media starting from the early 1980s.
Never underestimate my capacity for pettiness.

User avatar
echizenyorokobi
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue 10.30.2007 5:13 pm

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by echizenyorokobi » Tue 10.30.2007 6:21 pm

i would like to learn how to write my name in kanji. Yorokobi. ;)
Last edited by echizenyorokobi on Tue 10.30.2007 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yorokobi-san

Wakannai
Posts: 658
Joined: Thu 10.18.2007 6:38 am

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Wakannai » Tue 10.30.2007 7:09 pm

Hijacking threads makes no friends.

User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Native language: English
Gender: Male
Location: Indiana
Contact:

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by AJBryant » Tue 10.30.2007 9:37 pm

Preach it, brah.


Tony

User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: Why Are Newbies Learning The Freakin Kanji?!

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Tue 10.30.2007 9:48 pm

Although that is kind of ironic coming directly after a series of posts talking about Gallagher. :)

喜び is the answer, BTW. Next time make your own thread.
-Chris Kern

Post Reply