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questions about JLPT in general.........especially level 4..

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questions about JLPT in general.........especially level 4..

Postby kawaiineko32 » Sat 12.01.2007 11:39 pm

This may seem like an unconventional method with learning kanji but I've studying kanji for about a year and know 140 using this method. It may not work for others because they choose to learn differently, but it works for me, so I've stuck with using it.
I don't use stroke order with kanji. Do you have to know stroke order for kanji for any of the levels of JLPT? I would also like to know what grammar you need to know. I'm currently writing a vocabulary list of words for JLPT level 4. I plan to memorize the hiragana and romaji and the English translations of the words. After I learn the vocabulary I would like to study grammar. Out of these parts of grammar which are covered most heavily on JLPT level 4. I will be referring to the parts of grammar in English, as I'm still learning Japanese grammar and know very little about it.

Adjectives
Particles (wa, ni, ga, wo, etc.; equivalent of English prepositions)
nouns
Verbs

pronouns (I know the Japanese don't rely as heavily on them as native speakers of English, but I do know they exist in English)

adverbs
expressions, phrases, and/or idioms

This is just what has come to me off the top of my head. I would like an idea as to what grammar is covered on the test. PLEASE BE SPECIFIC. I didn't yell when I put it in caps, I put it in caps to emphasize a point. I would prefer if people who have taken any level of the JLPT would respond to this post as they know what is on the test because they've taken it.

Please I need to know this information as soon as possible. I am studying Japanese via teaching myself and I only have about a year to study for the JLPT as I plan to take it next year. I know this seems like great amount of time to prepare but between building my vocabulary, learning kanji, and learning grammar I have much to learn and it's very overwhelming. To me there is no point in studying grammar if I don't know which parts of grammar to study.
Last edited by kawaiineko32 on Sat 12.01.2007 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby chikara » Sun 12.02.2007 1:21 am

kawaiineko32 wrote:
..... I plan to memorize the hiragana and romaji ...

There is no romaji in the JLPT 4級 so don't bother. If you know hiragana and katakana there is no need for romaji as far as the JLPT is concerned.

kawaiineko32 wrote:
..... I would like an idea as to what grammar is covered on the test. PLEASE BE SPECIFIC. I didn't yell when I put it in caps, I put it in caps to emphasize a point. I would prefer if people who have taken any level of the JLPT would respond to this post as they know what is on the test because they've taken it.

Please I need to know this information as soon as possible. I am studying Japanese via teaching myself and I only have about a year to study for the JLPT as I plan to take it next year. I know this seems like great amount of time to prepare but between building my vocabulary, learning kanji, and learning grammar I have much to learn and it's very overwhelming. To me there is no point in studying grammar if I don't know which parts of grammar to study.

I would recommend you buy The Preparatory Course For The JLPT Level 4 from UNICOM. You can buy it thru' the TheJapanShop. I would also recommend you buy the previous years test (also thru' TheJapanShop). These include the CD for the listening section of the test and the correct answers.
Last edited by chikara on Sun 12.02.2007 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby kawaiineko32 » Sun 12.02.2007 4:38 am

I am guessing based upon the reply you gave me you're familiar with the JLPT and how the test works. I appreciate the suggestions given. However that aside you didn't answer some of the questions I had in the post. Do you know if you have to know stroke order for any level of the JLPT? Do you know the grammar that is covered (a rough idea) on the JLPT level 4. At this point and time, I cannot afford to purchase the learning material recommended because finances are tight.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby everdream » Sun 12.02.2007 5:08 am

Stroke order is not tested in the exam, however, it might still be useful to know....
http://jlptstudy.com/4/index.html
That is the grammar you need to know for the exam.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby chikara » Sun 12.02.2007 10:18 pm

kawaiineko32 wrote:
... you didn't answer some of the questions I had in the post. ..

No, but I showed you where to find the answers ;)

kawaiineko32 wrote:
... At this point and time, I cannot afford to purchase the learning material recommended because finances are tight.

Here, the past exam papers can be borrowed from The Japan Foundation, which conducts the JLPT in this country, for a $20 deposit which is fully refunded when the materials are returned. There may be something similar in your area.

You can also download sample sections of past tests from the JLPT Communication Square. For 2005 they have all 3 parts of 4級 for download and for 2006 they have writing-vocab and listening. The listening has the script of what is on the CD so while it won't help your listening as such it will give you a good idea of what you will hear and the type of questions that are asked.

Hope this helps :)
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby hungryhotei » Sun 12.02.2007 10:30 pm

kawaiineko32 wrote:
To me there is no point in studying grammar if I don't know which parts of grammar to study.


I'm just a little confused as to why you seem to be more concerned with passing JLPT 4 than becoming proficient in Japanese. If you just follow your textbook it should teach you (and in a structured way) the vocab, grammar and skills that are actually useful to you rather than just what you need to pass a test. For example with the issue of learning stroke orders, no they are not tested on JLPT, but this doesn't mean that you shouldn't learn them since they are quite useful to know, and pretty much vital if you want to write things well by hand.

I can understand focusing your studies on the JLPT a few months before the test, or using books written for the test to study, but it seems a bit extreme to make it the focus of your whole study programme.
Last edited by hungryhotei on Sun 12.02.2007 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby Igirisu_gaz » Mon 12.03.2007 2:25 am

hungryhotei wrote:
kawaiineko32 wrote:
To me there is no point in studying grammar if I don't know which parts of grammar to study.


I'm just a little confused as to why you seem to be more concerned with passing JLPT 4 than becoming proficient in Japanese.


I applaude this statement.

Passing the JLPT 4 will do precisely nothing for you. Perhaps if you want to enter a formal course of study it will look fancy on your CV but it will do little to aid you professionally. Too many people fall into the trap of studying for the JLPT or JETRO only. Whilst recognised institutions they are not the yardstick for mastery of a language, actually being able to practically use the language yourself is the only measure for that. Passing JLPT1 is required for most professions involving Japanese, however passing JLPT1 is meaningless unless you also have a highly functional grasp of the language also and are not simply a good test taker.

Common sense should tell you that as JLPT 4 is the easiest level it will contain the easiest grammar points, these are typically taught at the start of any course of study. The vast majority of past papers can be downloaded by browsing the forums here but the site is basically completely Japanese.

As far as learning Romaji and Hiragana goes, by learning the hiragana you will learn the romaji. Also as was mentioned, romaji is not on the JLPT4, it is a Japanese only exam. You are not required to write any characters in the JLPT whatsoever, all questions are multiple choice.

A year is ample time to study for the JLPT4, the grammar points you require are here but I would advise against learning the vocabulary first and grammar last, it seems like an awful lot of wasted effort.
Last edited by Igirisu_gaz on Mon 12.03.2007 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby Ihatetofu24 » Thu 12.27.2007 10:56 pm

Not to be rude, but aside from grammar building your vocabulary is probably the biggest part to efficiently mastering a language. I can read hiragana and recognize some kanji; however if I see a word in hiragana, a kanji, or a kanji compound I might not know the English translation for it with a limited vocabulary. That will make studying a book that's in Japanese very difficult because of a limited vocabulary. I'm lousy at taking tests. By preparing for the test, I'll be learning what is needed to master a language; basic grammar and building vocabulary.

To me learning grammar is the most difficult part of any language. The rules of grammar you're used to in your language may not apply in the language you're learning. That is because it's a language different from your native language. As a result the rules of grammar are going to be different. Sure grammar is rudimentary when you first start learning a language because you're at a beginning level. Books or teachers will introduce to you parts of grammar you understand and simple sentences so you can become more proficient in a language via immersion and practice. However the grammar becomes progressively harder with a language the more fluent you become in a language.

Just because you don't realize you're using grammar with a language you're fluent in, doesn't mean the grammar is non-existent; you just don't realize you're using it if you're communicating in your native language.

I see no point in studying Japanese if I'm not going to use it in the future; it would be a waste of time, effort, energy, and money.
I do plan to relocate to Japan eventually; so I'll be using the language incessantly in all aspects because I'll be immersed in it. I'm not trying to impress anybody. I am teaching myself Japanese. I'm not trying to attain entrance into a university or college in Japan; so the reason I'm taking the JLPT is to measure the abilities
I've learned in Japanese and see what areas I need to improve on in Japanese.

If I pass all 4 levels of JLPT then I receive pieces of paper that are formal proof I've passed all 4 parts of this test. However I don't care about that. I'm using this test as a means to help me become more proficient in the language. By preparing for it I will be quasi-immersed by studying and practicing. Sure I receive formal certification from this test by passing it which will help when I move to Japan. However that's not my reason for preparing for and taking JLPT; it's merely a bonus in addition to mastering the Japanese language.
Last edited by Ihatetofu24 on Thu 12.27.2007 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby saraLynne » Fri 12.28.2007 2:15 am

No one said "don't learn grammar". They said don't study for the JLPT as a goal. If your study is geared entirely toward the test, you're treating language study like most kids treat their high school classes. Learn enough to pass the test, and that's "good enough".

If you have that attitude with language study, even if you pass the JLPT1, you've missed the point and won't really be as good at the language as if you'd taken a course that was meant to achieve proficiency, rather than teach a test.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby Ihatetofu24 » Fri 12.28.2007 2:35 am

You just made a bunch of assumptions about my study habits and my motives for taking this test. You basically implied through your whole post that the only reason I'm taking this test is to receive the reward of formal certification of passing a test just for it to look good on my track record when I move to Japan. You also assumed that when I was in high school I just learned enough in my studies to scrape by and get an average grade.

First my motives for passing the test aren't
to achieve the formal certification; that's merely a bonus in my mind. Second,
when I apply myself to something that is interesting to me and that I have a passion for, I give it my all. Third you really don't have the right to assume that I'm just
going to do a half-baked job with studying and skim through the language and with
studying and learn just enough to barely communicate in Japanese. Some people
may do that in their study habits regarding Japanese; others do Japanese for just a hobby. Neither of those apply to me.

I am taking this test to improve my skills with Japanese in every aspect of the language:written, spoken, reading, and listening.
As said before studying for this test gives me an opportunity to be quasi-immersed
in the language, and I know the best way to learn a language is via immersion.
It's kind of hard to be fully immersed in Japanese when it's not a commonly taught or spoken language in the United States, so it's very difficult to apply what I learn via written or spoken communication; unfortunately I don't have any Japanese friends either. Bottom line is I am going to studious in my studies of the Japanese language
and learn as much as I can about the language. Some parts of the language are just more frustrating than others. Japanese is a difficult language to learn to begin with if you're not a native speaker of it; this is exacerbated when I'm teaching myself the language.

Just because you know other people or have heard of other people who do
a half-baked job with studying Japanese and don't take learning the language seriously even though they claim to want to learn it, I'm not them. Please don't assume that because they don't take learning the language seriously, that I'm the same way; I'm not them. You made an assumption that came off as rude to me. You don't know the first thing about me as a person and you came off as very judgmental.
Last edited by Ihatetofu24 on Fri 12.28.2007 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby saraLynne » Fri 12.28.2007 2:40 am

The word "if" is a qualifier, and the "you" is a generic you.

IF the statement does not apply to you, then it does not apply to you.

YOU (not the generic you this time) wrote a post that made the assumption that the people in this thread were saying not to study grammar or vocab. That isn't what they were saying at all. In fact, your entire post really doesn't reflect anything that was actually posted prior to it.
Last edited by saraLynne on Fri 12.28.2007 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby Harisenbon » Fri 12.28.2007 3:45 am

Ihatetofu24 wrote:
I am taking this test to improve my skills with Japanese in every aspect of the language:written, spoken, reading, and listening.


Just to be nit-picky, the test will not improve your written or spoken Japanese, as there are not written or spoken portions on the test. The listening is also pretty much a joke. The reading section is pretty good however.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby Ihatetofu24 » Fri 12.28.2007 5:42 am

In all honesty what I getting out of this is not taking the test itself. The preparation that will go into this prior to taking the test is what will benefit me the most. I will be quasi-immersed incessantly, and I'll be practicing and studying many aspects of the Japanese language. Writing with Japanese isn't really an issue for me. I'm learning to write kanji and I can already write the system of hiragana blindfolded; it's as natural to me as writing my ABC's. I'll receive formal certification with passing all 4 levels; however this is merely a bonus for me; it's not the main reason I'm taking the test.
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RE: questions about JLPT in general.........especially level

Postby sushi4ever » Fri 12.28.2007 6:06 am

i think what they're all trying to say is: stop aiming at the jlpt, rather take your textbook and just learn and THEN just take the jlpt.

your textbook (genki, in my case) will teach you everything you need to know so you can pass the test easily, so there is no need to just aim for the test solely because that would be sort of... well... stupid.

so, a textbook is absolutely vital, no matter what the financial status, i actually saved up for my genki issues loong time but eventually, i could buy them ^^

just relax, learn your stuff, check by the jlptstudy page/forum and i guess you'll be fine.

(and stop misinterpreting posts, please. they're all just trying to help.)
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