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Question about dots and furigana

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Question about dots and furigana

Postby Ragdoll-ish » Fri 12.28.2007 11:31 pm

I've never posted in this forum before, and I wasn't sure where to put this question... Sorry if it's in the wrong place.

I've been reading some manga in Japanese. I noticed that where the furigana are supposed to be there are sometimes just black dots. Sometimes the dots are on the right side of a hiragana, which obviously doesn't need furigana, and sometimes they're on the side of kanji, but if so usually in combination with furigana.
What's the purpose/use? I've been wondering since I noticed it.
Last edited by Ragdoll-ish on Fri 12.28.2007 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Wakannai » Sat 12.29.2007 12:04 am

do you mean ゛ or ゜
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Ragdoll-ish » Sat 12.29.2007 2:14 am

It's not the " or ゜ that change, for example, a ha into a ba or pa. They're on the exact same spot as furigana usually are, but they're round black dots. For example, I saw tora written in katakana, and on the furigana spots to the right of to and ra there were two black dots, one on each. They don't serve any purpose that I know of, and so I was curious.
Sorry if my first post was confusing ^^;
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby sushi4ever » Sat 12.29.2007 2:34 am

maybe it's for putting emphasis on the syllables?
i mean, for like, pronounciation help?

i don't really know but it was the only reasonable thing i could think of...
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Shirasagi » Sat 12.29.2007 2:37 am

They are called "bullets" (ビュレット) or "kenten" 圏点, and they indicate emphasis.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby sushi4ever » Sat 12.29.2007 2:42 am

Shirasagi wrote:
They are called "bullets" (ビュレット) or "kenten" 圏点, and they indicate emphasis.


hah!!
i knew it! *rejoices*
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Ragdoll-ish » Sat 12.29.2007 2:46 am

Thanks everyone! That makes perfect sense. One of the sentences was "owari da", and I can see why someone would put emphasis on that sentence. Does that mean it would be pronounciated with emphasis on each syllable that there was a dot next to, so that it would be said like "o-wa-ri da"?
Last edited by Ragdoll-ish on Sat 12.29.2007 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Shirasagi » Sat 12.29.2007 3:14 am

sushi4ever wrote:
Shirasagi wrote:
They are called "bullets" (ビュレット) or "kenten" 圏点, and they indicate emphasis.


hah!!
i knew it! *rejoices*


Really? ;)

sushi4ever wrote:
i don't really know but it was the only reasonable thing i could think of...


Ragdoll-ish wrote:
Thanks everyone!


What's this "everyone" stuff? Only one person in this thread positively knew the answer! :D ;)

That makes perfect sense. One of the sentences was "owari da", and I can see why someone would put emphasis on that sentence. Does that mean it would be pronounciated with emphasis on each syllable that there was a dot next to, so that it would be said like "o-wa-ri da"?


No, that would be the case only if a black dot (called a 中黒 nakaguro) were between the syllables. Think of 圏点 like italics for emphasis in English.

"So we came back home, and that's the end!"
Last edited by Shirasagi on Sat 12.29.2007 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Ragdoll-ish » Sat 12.29.2007 3:25 am

[What's this "everyone" stuff? Only one person in this thread positively knew the answer! :D ;)


I don't know actually... I guess I was thankful that the others were trying to come with suggestions for a plausible answer? ^^; "It's the thought that counts" or something like that. Hehe.. Or maybe I'm just polite like that. But of course I'm the most thankful to the person who actually knew the answer.

No, that would be the case only if a black dot (called a 中黒 nakaguro) were between the syllables. Think of 圏点 like italics for emphasis in English.

"So we came back home, and that's the end!"


Ah, ok! Thanks.
Last edited by Ragdoll-ish on Sat 12.29.2007 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby sushi4ever » Sat 12.29.2007 1:13 pm

Shirasagi wrote:
sushi4ever wrote:
Shirasagi wrote:
They are called "bullets" (ビュレット) or "kenten" 圏点, and they indicate emphasis.


hah!!
i knew it! *rejoices*


Really? ;)

sushi4ever wrote:
i don't really know but it was the only reasonable thing i could think of...



lol, yeah, like in "whoah, so i guessed right!" :D

but of course shirasagi really knew! *cheers*
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby keatonatron » Sun 12.30.2007 11:17 am

Ragdoll-ish wrote:
Does that mean it would be pronounciated with emphasis on each syllable that there was a dot next to, so that it would be said like "o-wa-ri da"?


Exactly.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Shirasagi » Sun 12.30.2007 1:32 pm

keatonatron wrote:
Ragdoll-ish wrote:
Does that mean it would be pronounciated with emphasis on each syllable that there was a dot next to, so that it would be said like "o-wa-ri da"?


Exactly.


This is one of those instances where it's difficult to explain things in writing, but I believe there's a distinct difference between

 ・ ・ ・
おわりだ。

and

お ・わ ・りだ

Ragdollish's example of "o-wa-ri da" reminds me of the latter more than the former...
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby keatonatron » Mon 12.31.2007 6:34 pm

But in manga and/or vertical writing, the second form is never used, which makes me think they're pretty much the same.

I mean, I guess the second one could be used if someone was spelling something... but that's a little different.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Harisenbon » Tue 01.01.2008 12:46 am

keatonatron wrote:
But in manga and/or vertical writing, the second form is never used, which makes me think they're pretty much the same.
.


Are you sure? I seem to remember that there are comics which use the お・わ・り・だ format, which is different than the dots on top.

I feel the same as Josh, in that the dots between the kana makes it sounds like it's being said one syllable at a time for emphasis, while the dots to the side merely give an emphasis on the whole word.
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RE: Question about dots and furigana

Postby Oracle » Tue 01.01.2008 2:13 am

I'll third that. Dots in between and dots above are different things to me: dots in between show someone is verbally 'spelling out' a word for emphasis (like a girl saying "ひ・み・つ!" ), while dots above are closer in usage to italics in English - there's an emphasis there but it is only for the benefit of someone reading the text, not in how characters say it. That's based on my own inferences from exposure to written Japanese. I don't know what the official answer is.

(of course dots are also used to seperate words in Japanese, similar to using a / in English, but that's a different thing)
Last edited by Oracle on Tue 01.01.2008 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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