Offensive Term?

[Harisenbon]

CoCoさん、
垂ｵ訳ありません、その時、新聞を読むこと出来ませんでしたので、深く納得していませんでした。覚えている事はテレビで見た国連の大使達の仰天な状況や、日本の大使の驚かせられた発言しか有りません。国連の会合は英語で行われていますので、言語の聞き間違いが無いと思いますが、明らかに全体像を誤解してしまいました。失礼しました。

Here is the translation of the article that coco quoted

There was an uproar in the United Nations on the 4th (of November 2003), when North Korean assistant minister Kim ChanGuk used, 3 times, the derogatory English term "Jap" to refer to the Japanese people.

In response to this, Japanese Assistant Minister Kimura (I'm sorry, I can't read his first name) attacked the Korean Minister, saying that his remarks were extremely innapropriate. UN Chairman Funt (sp) also warned North Korea that he "hopes that there would be no further use of such disdainful remarks in this dignified assembly hall."

[james_scoltock]

All terminology can be seen as offensive, it depends on the person and with what venom it is spoken. I have no problem with my gf and friends calling me gaijin, if it was a stranger I would be offended. And as for the British not understanding that using the term Jap. is offensive, that's utter rubbish, of course we realise it is.

As for the Japanese loving to shorten words, does that mean they wouldn't mind being called Nips? If they do mind then why should we have to put up with gaijin, why not use the dictionary term, gaikokujin?

[richvh]

Reuters story on North Korean "Jap" diplmatic brouhaha

[Spaztick]

Some people, if they feel that the word 外人 has an insulting tone to it (which by reading this thread it may not be), they might stick a さん on the end, although I haven't heard anyone being called が異人さん.

Closer example in Texas: calling a Mexican a wetback is pretty insulting, although the term just means a person whos back is wet. The context of course is that they had to swim across the Rio Grande (the river border between Mexico and Texas). Of course, nobody but the pretty lowly use this, but I'm just inputting, I have heard some Mexicans call each other wetbacks, taking pride in thier lineage I guess, but it's hard to put it into perfect context, and it really isn't the same as calling a foreigner in Japan...a foreigner. Oo

Hope that makes sense.

[SDnekojin]

Golgo-13 wrote:

"by your own arguement, jap is just an abbreviation of japanese"

Yes, but English-speaking cultures do not have the propensity to abbreviate like the japanese. I've never heard of an American or a Brit say "apart" for apartment building, "conveni" for a convenience store or "rehabil" for rehabilitation.

We say rehab.

[skrhgh3b]

hey, ハーフ is good genetics

[mayosta]

Yes, but English-speaking cultures do not have the propensity to abbreviate like the japanese. I've never heard of an American or a Brit say "apart" for apartment building, "conveni" for a convenience store or "rehabil" for rehabilitation.

Rehab is short for rehabilitation.

[WacKostRacKo]

personally jap would not come naturally to me, so i would have to make a concious effort to say it. Whats wrong with just saying 'the japanese' its not really that much more effort is it? if you think that it could be offensive then just stay well clear of saying it.

oh and i think that the way you say it would have an effect as well.

[Mariya]

So umm... don't use it? Okay, I think I got it. ^_^

[nprz]

If you want to say something shorter just use a different word, flat, store.
No reason to say "Jap(s)" anyway. Absolutely no reason to write it when using a computer. It is 5 characters more, than takes like .15 seconds tops. If you are text messaging, drop the a and you got jp (domain extension of japanese websites )

Any other disrespectful words shouldn't be used either as it impresses superiority/dominance.

At first I was upset about being called a ガイジン but that is what I am. If I was born there and lived there my whole live, I would take offense to such a term because it isn't true. If this was the case, telling them off wouldn't be difficult because I'd be fluent in the language.

[WacKostRacKo]

nprz, my point exactly. Though i think with words like ｶﾞｲｼﾞﾝ its the way that they are said, rather than the actual word. I wasn't offended by being called a ｶﾞｲｼﾞﾝ until someone said it to me when i was accidentally in his way. but thats my experience. Everyone is different and likes / does not like different things. Thats what makes the world a beautiful thing and is one of the fundamental reasons that we are all learning japanese. :p

[Spaztick]

Yes, peace here would be nice, but I'm going to input on the argment in this thread that somehow got to abbreviations in English:

veterinarian = vet
rehabilitation = rehab
coffee = java (kind of old but I'll count it)
metropolitan = metro
gymnasium = gym
sport utility vehicle = suv
automobile = auto, or car (you don't hear auto in the States though, but it brings me to my next one)
United States = US or States
Cranium's Protective Ultraviolet and Heat Reduction System = hat


Okay, so the last one was a joke, but there are in fact words used for abbreviations in English (wy is abbreviation such a long word anyways?) and they are words used in everyday life.

[nprz]

abbr = abbreviation (this had a joke in my Learn English book, which I used to learn some Japanese words)
SCUBA = self-contained underwater breathing apparatus
We just say America in California, rather than States, unless you mean specific states.
We like to shorten our words as well (who wouldn't). In Japanese, they usually only use the first kanji or two words, or the first few katakana 東大　東京大学, etc.

[WacKostRacKo]

and you might get a black-eye....

[Harisenbon]

Offensive phrases really have an ingroup/outgroup dynamic to it.

For example, I call myself a Jew. My friends are Jews, my ancestors are Jews. If some random person comes up to me and says "are you a Jew?" I get a tad irked (not mad, but it just kinda hits me somewhere).

It's the same thing with foreigners and gaijin. Or black people and the N word. Or any group. My chinese friends call each other chinks or crazy chinamen all the time because they think it's funny, and are representing their heritage. If a stranger said it to them, I doubt he'd walk away without a beating.

After talking with coco, I decided to do a little survey on my own. I don't live in Tokyo, so most of the people here (Gifu) are not very PC. I asked them what they thought of the word Jap. Almost all of them said that it was an abreviation for Japan, and were surprised to find out that it was deragatory. Some people even thought that the correct abreviation for Japan is jap, not JPN.

I'm not even getting close to suggesting that it is a good word, or something that people (especially as outsiders) should say, but it is interesting to see how ideas of words change when the context of who's talking changes.