Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Post questions and answers about living or visiting Japan or the culture

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 01.17.2008 12:19 pm

chikara wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:
Making spanish the official Language to the US would be like making Maori the official language of Australia. Yeah.. both make sense. ....

My comment was tongue in cheek, hence the ;)


i forgot the smiley, but mine was also said in jest.. I am well aware of the Ausie/Kiwi implications.


And yes, I am a cruel person when it suits me..

chikara wrote:
You mean an "American test" :D

The biggest problem is all these people want to listen to us speak, "I just looooove your accent", but they hardly understand a word we say :(


I don't love the accent and I can hardly understand what Aussies say as well. but that still doesn't make me want to keep aussies out of the US. personally as long as it's legal immigration I don't care who you are, how well you speak etc.. (the rest is borderline political and I will stop there)
Last edited by two_heads_talking on Thu 01.17.2008 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
two_heads_talking
 
Posts: 4137
Joined: Thu 04.06.2006 11:03 am
Native language: English

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby Ken Pro » Thu 01.17.2008 1:19 pm

coco wrote:
Discommunication between local society and non-Japanese-speaking people brings serious frictions. Some of them start to make their own society inside of Japanese society. The rules and regulations that should be respected are disregarded. Then Japanese people are forced to get away from there.


As Chris points out, it's a widespread issue. In the US it's being stirred up again because our own economy is faltering and there is a seeking out of those elements that may be costing taxpayers more money than they'd prefer to pay. Immigrants (especially non-tax-paying ones) are near the top of the list.

You already believe that Japan is a police state, regardless of this issue, don't you?


Every country has to be a police state to some extent. I was just saying the need to enforce language requirements on long-term residents runs the risk of connecting Japanese language with Japanese law enforcement. Regulating what language people can speak makes a place "more" of a police state, in my opinion.

But this is the internet, so I exaggerate.
Ken Pro
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue 11.27.2007 11:46 pm

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby AJBryant » Thu 01.17.2008 1:26 pm

chikara wrote:
You mean an "American test" :D

The biggest problem is all these people want to listen to us speak, "I just looooove your accent", but they hardly understand a word we say :(


It's because Strine is such a foreign language. There are very few shared terms.

I mean, who would think "dinkum" means "genuine," "hooroo" means "goodbye," "fosters" means "beer," and "didgeridoo" means "argh, my ears"?

;)

Tony
(Who actually has an album of didgeridoo music)
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 01.17.2008 2:45 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
Yudan Taiteki wrote:
I think that even if someone can speak Japanese, they may still make their own society within Japan if there are enough foreigners like them. This is what has happened in the US.


It is happening in Japan as well. There are towns around me which years ago looked like Japanese towns with a small Brazilian presence. Now (parts of) those towns look like Brazilian towns with a Japanese presence.


And the reason for this is as much cultural as it is linguistic -- even if every permanent resident in a country knows that country's language, there will still be significant cultural barriers that will encourage them to form insular communities of their own, at least for a generation or two (sometimes longer).
-Chris Kern
User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
 
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby Mike Cash » Thu 01.17.2008 3:45 pm

Ken Pro wrote:

As Chris points out, it's a widespread issue. In the US it's being stirred up again because our own economy is faltering and there is a seeking out of those elements that may be costing taxpayers more money than they'd prefer to pay. Immigrants (especially non-tax-paying ones) are near the top of the list.


You have the wrong term there. Either that or you're deliberately blurring the issue. The problem is not immigrants. Immigrants are people who have immigrated legally. People who have come to a country to live illegally are not "illegal immigrants".....they're not immigrants at all. Call them what they are: trespassers, intruders, or some such.

What you wouldn't tolerate in your own home you shouldn't be willing to tolerate in your own country. If the "immigrants" were moving uninvited directly into your own personal house I doubt you would feel the same.

And quit saying "nationalism" and "conservative" like they're dirty words.
Never underestimate my capacity for pettiness.
User avatar
Mike Cash
 
Posts: 2737
Joined: Sun 08.20.2006 3:38 am
Native language: English

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 01.17.2008 4:05 pm

But the topic of this issue is immigration, even if you choose that rather idiosyncratic definition of "immigrants" -- the article was talking about people applying for permanent residency. The goal of this proposed legislation is to limit immigration into Japan by imposing additional requirements on people seeking permanent residency.

I'm just very skeptical that this language test could be implemented practically and fairly -- tests are notoriously bad at measuring actual language ability (it's not impossible to make a test that tests actual ability, but to standardize one across a country is more challenging).
-Chris Kern
User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
 
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 01.17.2008 4:43 pm

In the US, currently, an immigrant is anyone who comes from another place to live here. a legal immigrant is someone who does it by following the rules and guidelines set up for legal documentation. an illegal immigrant is someone who bypasses those laws and guidelines and has no legal documentation..

There are many definitions for what to call them.. undocumented, illegal, transmigrated, etc etc. but it all comes down to a simple immigrant who either follows the laws or does not. (again, alot of political stuff can follow here).

and Chris your concerns for such tests are warranted, but speculation upon speculation (which is all we have done here) will only continue to spur rash or otherwise non-worthwhile responses.. usually heated or unwarranted.

edited (again because sometimes I have an issue with spelling.)
Last edited by two_heads_talking on Thu 01.17.2008 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
two_heads_talking
 
Posts: 4137
Joined: Thu 04.06.2006 11:03 am
Native language: English

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby chikara » Thu 01.17.2008 6:22 pm

AJBryant wrote:
It's because Strine is such a foreign language. There are very few shared terms.

I mean, who would think "dinkum" means "genuine," "hooroo" means "goodbye," "fosters" means "beer," and "didgeridoo" means "argh, my ears"?

;)

Tony
(Who actually has an album of didgeridoo music)

Far suck of the sav Tony.

The sad thing about Fosters is that very few Aussies actually drink it. In the state of Queensland they spell beer "XXXX". Some one who does a lot of fourex (forex) is not a currency trader.

(I also have a CD of didge music)
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there
User avatar
chikara
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue 07.11.2006 10:48 pm
Location: Australia (SA)
Native language: English (Australian)
Gender: Male

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby chikara » Thu 01.17.2008 6:32 pm

coco wrote:
... Discommunication between local society and non-Japanese-speaking people brings serious frictions. Some of them start to make their own society inside of Japanese society. . .....

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
........ I think that even if someone can speak Japanese, they may still make their own society within Japan if there are enough foreigners like them. This is what has happened in the US.

I think this happens in every country. It has certainly happened here. I witnessed it happen in my home town the late 70's with the influx of "boat people" after the fall of South Vietnam. It is curently occurring again with an influx of Sudanese refugees. In both of these cases there has been, and in the case of the Sudanese still is, the serious frictions of which coco-san speaks.
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there
User avatar
chikara
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue 07.11.2006 10:48 pm
Location: Australia (SA)
Native language: English (Australian)
Gender: Male

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby AJBryant » Thu 01.17.2008 8:25 pm

chikara wrote:
Far suck of the sav Tony.

The sad thing about Fosters is that very few Aussies actually drink it. In the state of Queensland they spell beer "XXXX". Some one who does a lot of fourex (forex) is not a currency trader.

(I also have a CD of didge music)


I think all immigrants to Oz should be given a Strine phrase book, a CD of didgeridoo music, and a laminated card showing all the poisous things crawling around that can kill you.

I've never seen a country so replete with things that exist solely to end my life.

As much as I love Oz (I have friends there), I'd NEVER want to go caming there. Damn.

Tony
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby coco » Thu 01.17.2008 8:33 pm

Ken Pro-san,
I wanted to say why Foreign Minister Komura said " but also necessary for the Japanese society as well". 

We know a language barrier isn't the only reason of the frictions. But learning language is the first step to understand the culture of its society.

To be able to communicate with neighbors in common language is necessary for both foreign residents and local residents.

I believe that this is worth discussing the new requirement, even if it is not the best solution of the problems.
coco
 
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon 05.30.2005 12:43 am
Location: 東京都
Native language: 日本語(Japanese)

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby chikara » Thu 01.17.2008 9:12 pm

AJBryant wrote:
....
I've never seen a country so replete with things that exist solely to end my life.

As much as I love Oz (I have friends there), I'd NEVER want to go caming there...

Just because Australia is home to the 10 deadliest snakes in the world and we have a handful of common spiders that can kill. Scaredy cat :D

Just before xmas my wife and I were walking on a track across a paddock of stubble and she almost stepped on a Western Brown that was sunning itself by the side of the track. It didn't bite her but it almost scared her to death.

IIRC when I was living in the USA a bear got into the tent of some children camped up in the north woods and one of the children was killed. We lose a tourist now and then who doesn't realise that you don't pitch your tent under a gum tree (and not because of the drop bears).
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there
User avatar
chikara
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue 07.11.2006 10:48 pm
Location: Australia (SA)
Native language: English (Australian)
Gender: Male

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby chikara » Thu 01.17.2008 9:15 pm

coco wrote:
... To be able to communicate with neighbors in common language is necessary for both foreign residents and local residents.

I believe that this is worth discussing the new requirement, even if it is not the best solution of the problems.

Being able to communicate in a common language is not the whole solution but it is certainly a very good start.
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there
User avatar
chikara
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue 07.11.2006 10:48 pm
Location: Australia (SA)
Native language: English (Australian)
Gender: Male

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby AJBryant » Thu 01.17.2008 11:03 pm

Great -- I don't even know what a gum tree looks like. I'll need an encyclopedia if I ever make it to Oz.

Hey, ever thought about writing a "guide to surviving in Oz" handbook? I bet it would sell like hotcakes -- if only to the tongue-in-cheek crowd.


Tony
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: Adding a language requirement to the visa application

Postby chikara » Fri 01.18.2008 12:02 am

AJBryant wrote:
Great -- I don't even know what a gum tree looks like. I'll need an encyclopedia if I ever make it to Oz. ...

Just go to California. There is (was) a large specimen growing on Alcatraz and on Angel Island they are a weed which they were trying to eradicate.

I was walking thru' a carpark (parking lot) in Santa Teresa and I commented on all the gum trees to my local companion.

"What gum trees?"
"Oh, sorry I mean eucalyptus"
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there
User avatar
chikara
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue 07.11.2006 10:48 pm
Location: Australia (SA)
Native language: English (Australian)
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to Culture and Info about living in Japan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests