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White Rabbit Press flashcard question

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White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby Takoyaki » Mon 01.21.2008 1:35 am

Anyone familiar with these cards?

Why the heck are some on'yomi and kun'yomi readings in parenthesis?

Example: 読 ドク/トク/(トウ)

The instructions happan to leave that explanation out..... :(
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby Adriano » Mon 01.21.2008 7:14 am

I guess it´s because these onyomi aren´t used everytime, just in special cases.
You will see the kanji 女 too with (め)
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Mon 01.21.2008 9:54 am

The Jouyou Kanji list marks certain readings as rare or restricted in use. "tou" as an on-yomi of 読 is only found in a few words (句読点 meaning "punctuation mark" is one of them). This doesn't necessarily mean the words are rare, just the reading.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby furrykef » Mon 01.21.2008 7:52 pm

Hmm, can the official Jōyō list be obtained for free? I'm thinking of using my own method for memorizing readings instead of doing vol. 2 of Heisig -- basically a variation of kanji-chain/kanji-town -- and I need to have all the common readings of each character while avoiding the uncommon ones. Kanjidic doesn't mark that as an uncommon reading, unfortunately.

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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby coco » Mon 01.21.2008 8:01 pm

furrykef wrote:
Hmm, can the official Jōyō list be obtained for free?

[url=http://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo/main.asp?fl=list&id=1000003929&clc=1000000068]ここの本票/url]からどうぞ。
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby chikara » Mon 01.21.2008 8:04 pm

furrykef wrote:
... can the official Jōyō list be obtained for free? ....

No, they are a carefully guarded secret :D

They are listed in Wikipedia among other places.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Mon 01.21.2008 8:55 pm

Trying to memorize the readings of a large number of kanji in bulk, without doing anything else, is unlikely to work. Assuming you're using RTK 1, you should follow that up not with cramming readings, but using some sort of book (like Kanji in Context or Basic Kanji Book) that presents the readings along with words and reading exercises. I understand the allure of the divide and conquer approach, but at some point you have to deal with the actual language.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby furrykef » Tue 01.22.2008 1:03 am

Nah, I'm not gonna cram all the readings right after finishing RTK1. I'm going to start preparing to do that, but that preparation will undoubtedly take some months, during which I will be learning from actual Japanese in order to break up the monotony.

chikara wrote:
They are listed in Wikipedia among other places.


That list doesn't mark the rarity of the "tou" reading of 読 either...

I actually had the original Jōyō document in mind, since that was presumably what Yudan was referencing. After all, if they published a list, it was published somewhere. But I'd also take an equivalent list from another source if I know that rare readings are marked or omitted.

EDIT: Is this what coco linked to? The original document? Does the indentation serve to mark obscure readings?

I notice I can't copy and paste from that document, though. That'd be a pain to work with...

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Last edited by furrykef on Tue 01.22.2008 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby Takoyaki » Tue 01.22.2008 4:00 am

Naru hodo ne. Wow. Good advice. Thanks! :)

I find using the Kanji or reading it in various materials in actual sentences really helps me to remember common readings. But the uncommon ones that I never see or use I do have some trouble with.

I am planning on spending some time in Japan in language school there. I think that will be the best way. When you're forced to use what you know just by the environment. Tends to make things stick better in my experience.
Last edited by Takoyaki on Tue 01.22.2008 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby coco » Tue 01.22.2008 10:19 am

furrykef wrote:
EDIT: Does the indentation serve to mark obscure readings?


浮フ見方及び使い方

6.音訓欄には,音訓を示した。字音は片仮名で,字訓は平仮名で示した。一字下げで示した音訓は,特別なもの又は用法のごく狭いものである
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 01.22.2008 10:34 am

The Kanji Kentei materials also classify readings as 中学生 (middle school) or 高校生 (high school), with the high school ones being the most obscure. I made a list of the high school readings for most of the kanji, which is more helpful as a list of what *not* to study.

The high school readings vary in obscurity. Just looking at the first items on the list:
悪  オ
行  アン
因  よ(る)
会  エ
回  エ

The first one is probably the most common there, I recognize it primarily from 憎悪. I know 行灯(あんどん) for the second one but I'm not sure I've ever actually seen that word in running text, just as an example compound in books. I don't think I've ever seen 因る, and the other two readings are used in Buddhist words that I never see (or at least not without furigana).

I can post the whole list if you're interested. In the end, though, it's not so much what kanji or readings are classified in certain places on arbitrary lists, it's what shows up in the material you are reading. For instance, in the video game I'm playing now, the word 艦艇 shows up a lot even though both kanji are usually considered fairly low frequency kanji.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby furrykef » Tue 01.22.2008 4:09 pm

coco wrote:
6.音訓欄には,音訓を示した。字音は片仮名で,字訓は平仮名で示した。一字下げで示した音訓は,特別なもの又は用法のごく狭いものである


僕は日本語がわかりません;)

(Sorry, it's just that I really do not know much actual Japanese right now, so reading anything in it is, naturally, difficult... to say the least!)
Last edited by furrykef on Tue 01.22.2008 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 01.22.2008 4:28 pm

The readings in lighter letters are the "special" readings, as that calls them.
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RE: White Rabbit Press flashcard question

Postby coco » Tue 01.22.2008 9:03 pm

Yudanさん、ありがとう。
furrykef さん、私は英語がわかりません。 :D


furrykef wrote:
The original document?

That list has been provided by "Agency for Cultural Affairs(文化庁)" where the kanji policy is decided at. So I believe it is the original document.
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