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Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

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Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Dehitay » Thu 02.07.2008 3:36 pm

Taking after richvh, I decided to write my own story in Japanese. I finished chapter one after some effort. I didn't really use any furigana except in the case when a name is introduced for the first time. Here's my first chapter:

第一章
鉄夜(てつや)はバイトから帰りました。もう午後10時でした。「遅い」と思いました。帰りながら、泣いてる女の子を見ました。11歳だけみたいでした。鉄夜は女の子に行って手伝ってみました。
「おじょうちゃん、親はどこ?」
「知らない」
「わたしは鉄夜。おじょうちゃんは?」
「赤美(あかみ)」
「じゃ、赤美ちゃん、どこに最近親といっしょうにいた?」
「知らない」
「そうか。交番に行こう。」
「いや」
「迷子だから交番行くはず」
「いや」
「じゃ、何したい?」
「帰りたい」
「どう帰るの知るか」
「うん」
「どこ?」
赤美は歩き始めながら、「こっちへ」と答えました。
鉄夜は古い家に赤美を従いました。赤美は扉を開けました。錠が下りていませんでした。赤美は入ったけど、鉄夜が外で待ちました。
「入ってもいい」
「だいじょうぶ。バイバイ。」
「待って」
「なに?」
「独りでいたくない」
「親はどこ?」
「知らない」
「いつ帰る?」
「帰らない」
「なに?」
「帰らない」
「なぜ?」
「ここに住んでない」
「じゃ、だれと住んでる?」
「一人だけ」
「まじ?」
「うん」
「それはたいへんだね」
「入ってください」
目の中に涙を見てから、鉄夜は入りました。赤美は扉閉めました。鉄夜は玄関で靴を脱ぎました。赤美は鉄夜の肩に手を置いて「ありがとう」と言いました。
「いい」
牙が出し抜けに鉄夜の首を刺しました。


I think I've done a decent job, but I'm ready for corrections. There's a few things in specific I'm curious about.

First of all, I don't know how Japanese literature actually looks. I've based this on my English writing style where quotes from different people always go in new paragraphs; and if the paragraph is just a quote where the speaker is obvious, all you need is the quote itself. I'm not quite sure the same is true with Japanese literature.

In addition, I've used 2 phrases that I've never actually learned before. 錠が下りている and 出し抜けに. If I used either one of them wrong or if there are better phrases for the situation, please tell me.
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Adriano » Thu 02.07.2008 4:45 pm

nice job! :)

午後10時- 10p.m.? I think it´s used 夜庶 instead.

「じゃ、赤美ちゃん、どこに最近親といっしょうにいた?」 - 最後の親と一緒のところは?

目の中に涙を見てから - 涙が流してから。  涙が零れてから。
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Fakse92 » Thu 02.07.2008 5:18 pm

Oh good! I'm going to print it so I can take a look at it tomorrow :)
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 02.07.2008 6:00 pm

バイトから帰りました means that he's already home; I think you can just use 帰ります here.

ながら cannot be used the way you used it in the first paragraph -- I'm not really sure how to explain it; the two actions have to be concurrent, not one happening in the middle of the other one. 途中で might be a better way to express "on the way home".

The standard for narrative prose is to use plain form rather than -masu style unless the story is supposed to be narrated by a specific person who is using -masu form for a reason.
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Dehitay » Thu 02.07.2008 6:17 pm

Adriano wrote:
nice job! :)

午後10時- 10p.m.? I think it´s used 夜庶 instead.

「じゃ、赤美ちゃん、どこに最近親といっしょうにいた?」 - 最後の親と一緒のところは?

目の中に涙を見てから - 涙が流してから。  涙が零れてから。


Ah, I forgot about that sentence. Yeah, I wasn't quite sure how to say "Where did you last see your parents?" but that looks like it works better than my guess. As for the other sentence, at that point she isn't actually crying yet but it looks like she's about to. Would 流す mean just a little bit of tears are visible or she's already crying?


Yudan Taiteki wrote:
バイトから帰りました means that he's already home; I think you can just use 帰ります here.

ながら cannot be used the way you used it in the first paragraph -- I'm not really sure how to explain it; the two actions have to be concurrent, not one happening in the middle of the other one. 途中で might be a better way to express "on the way home".

The standard for narrative prose is to use plain form rather than -masu style unless the story is supposed to be narrated by a specific person who is using -masu form for a reason.


I was trying to imply it was the past tense of him walking home. Would 帰っていました work instead? Actually, I guess it would be 帰っていた using plain form. I'll have to go back and change all that. It makes it shorter which would be nice if it was really that long to begin with.
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 02.07.2008 7:00 pm

帰っていた means that he is at home, having returned there.

Japanese narratives are not always written completely in past tense, but you can do that if you want.

By 見てから were you trying to show a cause and effect, or do sequencing?

Xを見てからY = "After he saw X, then Y."
Xを見たからY = "Because he saw X, then Y."
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Dehitay » Thu 02.07.2008 7:52 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
帰っていた means that he is at home, having returned there.

Japanese narratives are not always written completely in past tense, but you can do that if you want.

By 見てから were you trying to show a cause and effect, or do sequencing?

Xを見てからY = "After he saw X, then Y."
Xを見たからY = "Because he saw X, then Y."


I have a habit of writing and telling stories in past tense. If that's the case, would it be appropriate to use 帰った?
I was trying to use sequential order. It didn't even occur to me till now that I could have used cause. Now I'm debating which one would be better. In English, I would say "After he saw the tears in her eyes, he entered" but I don't know what would flow better in Japanese.
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 02.07.2008 8:04 pm

帰った sounds odd no matter what because it means he already returned home, but then you go on to say what happened while he was walking home. Especially since it doesn't look like he ever actually gets home, 帰った (or 帰っていた) just doesn't work. I think you're going to have to find a different way to start the story -- say just that he was walking down the road or something like that.
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Igirisu_gaz » Thu 02.07.2008 8:36 pm

Dehitay wrote: In English, I would say "After he saw the tears in her eyes, he entered" but I don't know what would flow better in Japanese.


彼女の目には涙が浮かんでいた。彼はその涙を見たら家に入りました。

OR something like that seems about right. I recall reading on several occaisions that 涙 can be accompanied by 浮く which I guess roughly translates to "tears welling up".
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Dehitay » Thu 02.07.2008 11:52 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
帰った sounds odd no matter what because it means he already returned home, but then you go on to say what happened while he was walking home. Especially since it doesn't look like he ever actually gets home, 帰った (or 帰っていた) just doesn't work. I think you're going to have to find a different way to start the story -- say just that he was walking down the road or something like that.


帰るつもりだった?
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby katafei » Fri 02.08.2008 5:15 am

Great, another story to read ^_^
I seem to be hung up on particles these days, but doesn't line 12:
「迷子だから交番行くはず」

need a に as well?
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby EvanT » Fri 02.08.2008 5:25 am

鉄夜はバイトから帰りました

I wonder if this would this work better?
鉄夜はバイトから家へ行くところだった。

涙が浮かんでいた

In several songs I've also heard this:
涙が溢れた

Also another note. I think that the character's name might cause a subtle problem, since you'll end up using it a lot with the topic particle は. In てつやは, "や" and "わ" might cause a (I don't really know the english term) "phonetic chasm" of sorts... two relatively similar sounds pronounced in succession. This is entirely my own opinion, but perhaps you should avoid ending the character's name in aや? Just something to think about.
Last edited by EvanT on Fri 02.08.2008 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby Adriano » Fri 02.08.2008 8:08 am

Dehitay wrote:

Ah, I forgot about that sentence. Yeah, I wasn't quite sure how to say "Where did you last see your parents?" but that looks like it works better than my guess. As for the other sentence, at that point she isn't actually crying yet but it looks like she's about to. Would 流す mean just a little bit of tears are visible or she's already crying?


Indeed, it´s used 涙流して/こぼれて、instead
I am not sure, but 流す means that the person is already crying(a lot) and 零れる、it´s used when 1 or 2 tears drops.
It´s used another word too, that I don´t remember, used too when the snow falls..
namida ga pokonpokon , kotonkoton.... I dont remember :(
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RE: Ko no Kiba Chapter 1

Postby coco » Fri 02.08.2008 11:36 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
I think you're going to have to find a different way to start the story -- say just that he was walking down the road or something like that.
:D

As Yudan-san says, both 帰りました and 帰っていました in this context mean
Tesuya got back from a place where he does part-time job to his(parents') house.

EvanT wrote:
I wonder if this would this work better?
鉄夜はバイトから家へ行くところだった。

ところ works well in this context. :) But  
家に行く is commonly used for going to someone else's house.
I think 家に帰る ところでした。would make sense.
鉄夜は(アル)バイト(先)から家に帰る途中でした。would be also fine.
鉄夜は(アル)バイトを終え、帰宅するところでした。would be more natural. 

Igirisu_gaz wrote:
彼女の目には涙が浮かんでいた。彼はその涙を見たら家に入りました。


「涙が浮かぶ」というのは、ぴったりの阜サだと思います。 :)
その次の「たら」は、「したくなる」などと組み合わせて条件用法としては使えます。
例:
「その涙を見たら、家に入りたくなった」
「フィッシュ&チップスを食べたら、ギネスビールが飲みたくなった」
けれども「涙を見たら、家に入りました」 という使い方はできません。

EvanT wrote:
In several songs I've also heard this:
涙が溢れた

yes, it's a common/popular phrase.
涙が溢れた, 涙を流した/こぼした are used when tears come out. (shed tears?)

涙を浮かべている
涙が浮かんでいる
涙をためている
These are used when tears are just about to come up, but tears don't shed yet.   

As for the other sentence, at that point she isn't actually crying yet but it looks like she's about to. Would 流す mean just a little bit of tears are visible or she's already crying?

I think
赤美が涙を浮かべていたのを見て、鉄夜は(その)家に入りました。
might be closer to your original.
Last edited by coco on Sat 02.09.2008 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: 手伝う/助ける  

Postby coco » Sat 02.09.2008 1:55 am

EvanT wrote:
Also another note. I think that the character's name might cause a subtle problem, since you'll end up using it a lot with the topic particle は. In てつやは, "や" and "わ" might cause a (I don't really know the english term) "phonetic chasm" of sorts... two relatively similar sounds pronounced in succession. This is entirely my own opinion, but perhaps you should avoid ending the character's name in aや? Just something to think about.


Although I might be wrong, you are talking about "Phonaesthetics/euphonic changes"?

---
帰りながら、泣いてる女の子を見ました。

As Yudan-san explained, 帰りながら is incorrect.

11歳だけみたいでした。

だけin 11歳だけ is grammatically incorrect.
Does it mean “She looks like just 11 years old.” or “She looks like only 11 years old”?
(I wonder how he could recognize a 10-years-old girl and a 11-years-old girl because a young single man, like Tetsuya, is not usually good at guessing children's age. However you may be good at guessing children's age.)

鉄夜は女の子に行って手伝ってみました

This sentence is unnatural.
女の子のところに行って
女の子に近寄って
might be better.

I don't think both of 手伝ってみた/助けてみた are used for this situation because してみた is used when the action (on trial) had completely done.
手伝おうとしました。助けようとしました。would be better, both are grammatically correct. --(よ)うとする form.

To be precise,  
1)鉄夜は女の子に近寄って、(その子を)手伝おうとしました。
2)鉄夜は女の子に駆け寄って、(その子を)助けようとしました。

1) is commonly used when you attempted to assist the girl. 手伝う is used when you lend your hand for someone to do something.
e.g.
飼っている犬が逃げたと泣いている女の子がいたので、犬を探すのを手伝った。
You lent your hand to find her dog with her. (She tried to find the dog, you supported her.) She is the main person who does something for her purpose, you’re an assistant. )
Thus generally an object( the purpose) is put before 手伝う.
Example:
Tetsuya helped his father to paint the room.
鉄夜は父親が部屋を塗装するのを手伝った。

I think most Japanese use 犬を探すのを手伝った rather than 犬を探すのを助けた。

2) is used regardless of the girl's intention or her action for her purpose. 
e.g.
屋上から落ちてきた看板にぶつかりそうだった女の子がいたので、(その子を) 助けた。
In this case, you helped her without her request. This 助けた probably indicates you saved her life, or at least you protected her from more serious injury.
In this case, その子を手伝った is not used.

Therefore, 手伝おうとしました / 助けようとしました aren't natural expressions in this context.
---
説明に間違いや不明点があれば、遠慮なくご指摘ください。
Last edited by coco on Sat 02.09.2008 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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