JLPT 2 2008/2009

[katafei]

盛年重ねて来たらず　　　

[guldo]

こんにちは、皆さん
お久しぶりですね。
お元気ですか。
I'd like to join the 2kyuu study group.
I've been studying for the 2kyuu lately, but the amount of words is... oh... (not to mention the listening part...)
I don't think I'll pass 2kyuu first time... but I'll try anyway

[katafei]

おかえり　＾＿＾

[ss]

Ｇｕｌｄｏさん、こんにちは。　相変わらずです、ありがとう。　
本当にお久しぶりですね。Ｇｕｌｄｏさんが来られることを私はとても喜んでいます。大歓迎いたします。
日本語のニュアンスの奥深さは論じることが難しい場合があります。特にリスニングテスト、考えられないことです。さあ、みんなで知惠を出し合って問題の解答を一緒に考えてみよう。

文法リスト（ページ１）からいくつかを選んでください。 いまわの願い。　　 　 　

[caroline]

Welcome back, Guldosan

Here is my first contribution, just a beginning, to my small share of the daunting list...

11．に関して、に関しては、に関しても、に関する、

Spoiler:

N + に関して；when followed by a noun, becomes に関するN。
It’s used to introduce a topic that is spoken, talked, heard, thought, wrote of or investigated.

a) この問題に関して、もう少し考える必要がある。
I have to think a bit more about this problem.

b) 日本の映画に関する記事を読んだ。
I read an article about japanese movies.

c) 本件に関しては現在調査してあります。結論がでるまで待ってください。
About this case, there is an ongoing inquiry. Please wait for its outcome。

d) パリに住んでいるのに関しては、よく大変だと言われていますが、面白いですよ。
It’s often said that living in Paris is hard, but it’s interesting. (About living in Paris, it’s often said that…)



12．に対して、に対し、に対しては、に対しても、に対する。

Well,　I find two different meaning for に対して、the first one to refer to the target (or person) object of an action or feelings (a &b), the second one meaning in contrast to (c&d)

Spoiler:

N + に対して (に対する　N when followed by a name) 　for the first meaning.
N or (なadj　＋な　or　なadj＋である / N な or Nである) + の+　に対して for the second one

a) 目上の人に対して、そういう言い方はしつれいですよ。
It is rude to speak to your superiors that way.

b) 田中先生は勉強が嫌いな学生に対して、特に親しみをもっていた。
Professor Tanaka had a special fondness for the students that do not like studying.

c) 都市で人口が増えているのに対し、田舎で減っている。
In constrast to the rising population in the cities, the population of the countryside is falling.

d) 活発な弟に対して、兄葉静かな人です。
In constrast to my agitated little brother, my elder brother is a quiet person.

The rest will follow....

Katafei wrote :
I wanted to make this sentence,
She's the queen, she represents the country, so she can't be impolite.
王妃であるからには、国に代表して、失礼してはいけない
But I was wondering if the 2 -te forms would be included in the はいけない?

I'm a bit interrogative about that, as I only find references to からには as implying doing something naturally after have done something (not "being"). It's unclear, I'm afraid, but it means that there are 2 actions, the second one often being of volition or appeal. Maybe some examples will make it clearer :

日本に来たからには、日本のことを徹底的にしりたい。
Since I came to Japan, I want to know in depth Japanese matters.

試合に出るからには勝ちたい。
Since I take part in the contest, I want to win.

As for the second part of your question, (2 reasons) I would not know, except I can play trial and error, as long as I'll be corrected by more knowledgeable people :
試合に出て、よくトレーニングをするからには、勝ちたい。
Since I take part in the contest and I train well, I want to win.

後は、後で

[katafei]

Okay, the five grammar points from the second series.
The first example sentences are from books etc. so they should be fine.
The second sentences are home-made, so they could be faulty ^_^

~しかない

Spoiler:

cannot help, have no other option but to ~

Verb: plain form
Noun

最終電車が出てしまった後だったので、タクシーに乗るしかなかった。
After having missed the last train, I had no choice but to take a taxi.

?? 日本語を話すことができたいからには、頑張るしかない
Because I want to be able to speak Japanese, I have no choice but to keep on doing my best.

~にすぐない

Spoiler:

Is nothing more than ~
＝だけ or ただ

Verb: plain form
Noun

その新聞の発行部数は競争紙の三分の一に過ぎない。
The circulation of the newspaper is only one-third that of its competitor

?? 私について、今年は日本へ行くは夢に過ぎない。
For me, going to Japan this year, is nothing but a dream.

~にほかならない

Spoiler:

Nothing but
strong statement
Noun only

世界の歴史は自由意識の進歩にほかならない
The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom.

~ずに（は）いられない

Spoiler:

cannot help doing/ cannot stop doing

Verb: masu stem

感動的なドラマだった。泣かずにはいられない 。
It was such a soppy dorama, I couldn’t help crying.

?? ジャックはみんなに笑われた。同情しないではいられない。
Jack was laughed at by everybody. I can’t help feeling sorry for him.

~ないことは(も)ない

Spoiler:

it is not that ～ but～

Verb ~nai form
I-adj: stem
Na-adj/Noun + で

お箸は使えないことはないんですが、ナイフとフオークの方が使いやすいです。
It’s not that I can’t handle chopsticks, but I find cutlery easier to use.

?? 彼が嫌くないことはないですが、あまり強慢ですね
It’s not that I hate him, but he is a bit arrogant, isn’t he?



Quiz:
早く病気を治したかったら、医者の言うこと聞く　＿＿＿＿。

a. しかない
b. にずぎない
c. ことはない
d. どころかない

Spoiler:

正答　a.

@ Caroline: vocab is really not that boring! Here are a few beautiful words I learned today:

Spoiler:

蛇口 【じゃぐち】 faucet; tap = 蛇 snake + 口 mouth
蛍光灯【けいこうとう】fluorescent lamp = 蛍 firefly + 光 light + 灯 lamp
(Or: a lamp that gives the light of a firefly)
流行 【はやり】 fashionable; fad = 流 flow/stream + 行 go > to go with the flow

I love these things!

As for the second part of your question, (2 reasons) I would not know, except I can play trial and error, as long as I'll be corrected by more knowledgeable people :
試合に出て、よくトレーニングをするからには、勝ちたい。
Since I take part in the contest and I train well, I want to win.

hmmm, that sounds good! Then my sentence would be like this:
She's the queen, she represents the country, so she can't be impolite.
王妃であって、国に代表するからには、失礼してはいけない。

[caroline]

Katafei wrote :
@ Caroline: vocab is really not that boring! Here are a few beautiful words I learned today:
蛇口 【じゃぐち】 faucet; tap = 蛇 snake + 口 mouth
蛍光灯【けいこうとう】fluorescent lamp = 蛍 firefly + 光 light + 灯 lamp
(Or: a lamp that gives the light of a firefly)
流行 【はやり】 fashionable; fad = 流 flow/stream + 行 go > to go with the flow

I did not say vocabulary per se is boring and certainly not etymology : it's just cramming words for the sake of an exam, learning lists that is beyond what I can stand at this point of time (I might have done worse in the past ).
The words I encountered today were a little less "sexy", so to say, than yours.
Except this one : 性器、the うつわ（器）part being, considering the genderlessness of the term, something of a puzzle until I remembered 楽器。
And this is funnier by far than most of the other unknowns I encountered - or could not remember from a previous encounter, too many of those - today.

********
My third bit of grammar :

13．をめぐって、をめぐる

Spoiler:

Debates and conflicts around a certain issue. Often followed by verbs with meaning conflicts in opinion, various debate or struggle.
N + をめぐって；をめぐる＋N

a) この規則改正をめぐって、まだ討論が続いている。
There is still an ongoing debate about this modification of the regulation.

b) マンション建設をめぐる争い がようやく解決に向かった。
The dispute concerning the building of the block of flats has at last come to a conclusion.

c) 教育制度をめぐる諸問題について、話し合いましょう。
Let’s discuss the problems about the educational system.

[ss]

I construct my own sentences which probably have many mistakes. Beware!
Here they go, G1 7 and 8.

7．ながら
意味：　though, notwithstanding, while, during, both, all, while doing
動・名・ます形／ない形－ない＋ながら
い形－い＋ながら

イ. 草原で，寝ながら月見ができる。
Enjoying the moon can be done while lying in the meadow.

ロ. その携帯電子辞書は、小型（こがた）ながら性能（せいのう）がいい。
This handy electronic dictionary is small, but excellent in performance/quality.

〔**Caro, please also learn 性能 and 性格　 〕

8．うちに / ないうちに　
意味：while
動・辞書形／ない形－ない＋うちに
い形－い＋うちに
な形－な＋うちに
名－の＋うちに

イ．元気なうちに世界旅行をしたいです。
I want to travel round the world while I’m healthy. (still in good health)

ロ．日本にいるうちに、ディズニーランドへ行ってみたい。　
I want to go to Disneyland while in Japan.

ハ．これはよい本です。問題を解いていくうちに日本人の考え方や感じ（かんじ）方が分かり、日本で起きている最新（さいしん）の話題（わだい）や情報（じょうほう）を知ることができるように構成（こうせい）しています。
This is a good book. While you are solving the questions, you will also understand the feelings and thoughts of Japanese people.

ニ. 育ちの良い（そだちのいい）ものを残（ざん）しうちに、梨の木（なしのき）の負担（ふたん）を減ら（げんら）します。
While leaving the fruit that has grown well in condition, poor fruit is thinned to lessen the burden on the tree.

********
Katafei, interesting analyst of 語彙。
I like how the names of some flowers are introduced.

Matsuyoigusa 待宵草 = evening primrose
Kanji meanings :
Matsu 待 = wait. Yoi 宵 = evening. Gusa 草 = grass. weed. (Kusa)
Meanings : The grass waits the evening because of the flowering.

Suisen 水仙　＝ Daffodil
Sui 水 = water sen 仙 = hermit (a person who, usually for religious reasons, lives a very simple life alone and does not meet or talk other people)
Hence, 水仙 = hermit who lives in the water

Hinagiku 雛菊　＝ Daisy
Hina 雛 = doll, baby bird
Giku 菊 = chrysanthemum. (Kiku)
This flower which looks very lovely bear a likeness to Hinaningyou はな人形 (Japanese dolls).

Bijozakura 美女桜　＝　Verbena
Bi-Jo 美女 = beautiful woman. (Jo = Onna).
Zakura 桜 = cherry blossoms, Cherry tree, (Sakura).
This flower is like cherry blossoms, and it looks like a beautiful woman

Suiren 睡蓮 = water lily
Sui 睡 = sleep, asleep
Ren 蓮 = lotus
Sleeping lotus, it opens the petal in the day, and closes the petal at night, hence 睡蓮

******
Memo:
I will continue G1 9 and 10, then G2 6 - 10 ^_^

[caroline]

〔**Caro, please also learn 性能 and 性格　 〕

SSSan, I sure did follow your advice! These will stick in my memory, I guess!

[katafei]

Nice flower names, SS! I particularly like the water lily ...



Has anyone seen Tanuki recently??

[ss]

Caro, you sure have 性格　

>>> Has anyone seen Tanuki recently??

Maybe he is busy with 大学学業　 or デート

[two_heads_talking]

イ. 草原で，寝ながら月見ができる。
Enjoying the moon can be done while lying on meadow.

I think this would be more correct by saying: Enjoying the moon can be done while lying in the meadow. I did like your other explanations.

[ss]

Thank you Uncle Two-Head, I will edit that. Please feel free to correct my mistakes, be it English or Japanese.
I know I'm not perfect, but I'm willing to take every opportunity to learn. Even though I don't post sometimes, but reading forum here has become my daily routine, every day I learn something new.

I guess I have lost myself in the cybernet world sometimes, my personal feelings shouldn't enter into this at all. Anyway ..... thank you once again for participating in this thread, that's just simply an encouraging response.

[Txkun]

I created the wiki page for this group.
I'll add the link to my first post too.
As we go ahead I think it will be useful.

[ss]

Txkun, Caro, Katafei and みなさん。

Do you all have an idea how we can practise listening via chat session?
We are not getting any corrections here. Do you think there's a need to continue with the study group?
I have to admit that I'm not up to the mark of L2, even though I suspect some sentences are incorrect, I have no ability to give a better sentence.
If it's a waste of time, let's drop it.

-------
Thank you Txkun for the Wiki link.