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Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 06.20.2008 4:13 pm

Hyperworm wrote:
I am so sorry :( This thread is ruined :lol:


The FEAST, it's ruined.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dcap5FKFbs
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby piepiepie75 » Fri 06.20.2008 6:55 pm

Gravitation was one of the first anime I ever watched, and I still like it today.

But anyways, yeah, shounen-ai/yaoi is awesome. Though, it is annoying to go into Barnes & Nobles, go to the manga section, pick up a yaoi manga and have some 12 year old kid try to warn you that the manga you just picked up is 'gay'. Of course, his mother complained that they shouldn't put those kind of books where kids can see them. Meanwhile, she's taking her 12 year old to the counter to pay for three Love Hina books :roll:.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby chikara » Fri 06.20.2008 10:18 pm

AJBryant wrote:Oishi Kuranosuke's son, the youngest of the 47 ronin of Chushingura fame, would have a word to say to you, had he not been condemned to commit seppuku for his part in the raid on Kira's mansion. ;)

Thanks Tony-san. Glad that someone recognises my user ID for what it is :)

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As Rich-san said, even 力 (strength, power) doesn't sound particulary feminine either.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby Wakannai » Sat 06.21.2008 12:51 am

AJBryant wrote:
Oishi Kuranosuke's son, the youngest of the 47 ronin of Chushingura fame, would have a word to say to you, had he not been condemned to commit seppuku for his part in the raid on Kira's mansion. ;)


Tony


Actually, I think even if he hadn't been condemned he'd still be unavailable. :P
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby sugarlevi » Sat 06.21.2008 9:31 am

Ah well, shonen-ai/yaoi is nice. It's not even about boy's love, it's just an extremely romantic depiction of a relationship that uses two guys to bring equality into it. Since using a girl as one of the lead roles, would really ruin it, wouldn't it? You can't let a girl get forced, or let them behave in the childish way the girly guys does. Or vice versa. It would be totally awful, you'd hate her, you'd hate the forcing character, just awful. :roll:

So if little boy warns you that it is gay, just tell him it's a love story in a world in which there are no sex differences and all are equal. :lol:

The gayness is being used as a window to escape from the views of modern society about female/male interactions. Especially for Japanese and other countries where emancipation hasn't come as far as western society. Though even we got a long long way ahead of us.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby Sairana » Sat 06.21.2008 6:44 pm

sugarlevi wrote:You can't let a girl get forced, or let them behave in the childish way the girly guys does. Or vice versa. It would be totally awful, you'd hate her, you'd hate the forcing character, just awful. :roll:

Can't? Well, there's plenty that do. Heterosexual Dom/sub is common in Anime, Manga, Comics, and other media, with women portrayed in both roles. I'd hazard a guess that heterosexual media of this type is even MORE prevalent than the homosexual ones, so what I quoted above is pretty ridiculous.

The gayness is being used as a window to escape from the views of modern society about female/male interactions. Especially for Japanese and other countries where emancipation hasn't come as far as western society. Though even we got a long long way ahead of us.


? That's kind of.... an odd assessment. Shounen-ai means literally "boys' love". It is not, as a genre, making a political statement about gender roles in society. It's homosexual romance, end of the line. Even in the United States, you can find any kind of romance you could want, each one catering to a different demographic. You can get Dominant/Submissive novels, Historical Romance, Mystery Romance, Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Tranny Romance. It's about providing entertainment and pleasure via what are popularly called "smut books" (even my mom, a Danielle Steele enthusiast, called them that).

Shounen-ai is there to serve a purpose all right.... one that the OP summed up in her first post. "boys kissing boys are hotter than hot boys [sic]" :P
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby Akiahara » Sat 06.21.2008 10:46 pm

Ugh, I hate Gravitation. Shuichi is one of the most annoying characters EVER. Yuki was the only thing that made that series worth a thing, imo.

I'm an unapologetic BL fan, myself. Anime, manga, drama CDs... My all time favorite is the Winter Cicada OVA. It's soooo good - tragic yet completely beautiful.

The dom/sub aspect feels different in BL than it does in het stories, though. I'm not entirely sure I can point out why, but it just creates a different sort of dynamic and drama when it's between two men. I'm sure it'd be the same for yuri, too.

Personally, a lot of manga/anime women annoy the crap out of me... I'd rather watch guys. I enjoy music by men more than women, too, usually... I'm not sexist, it's just a preference. *shrug*
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby sugarlevi » Mon 06.23.2008 9:15 am

Sairana wrote:
sugarlevi wrote:You can't let a girl get forced, or let them behave in the childish way the girly guys does. Or vice versa. It would be totally awful, you'd hate her, you'd hate the forcing character, just awful. :roll:

Can't? Well, there's plenty that do. Heterosexual Dom/sub is common in Anime, Manga, Comics, and other media, with women portrayed in both roles. I'd hazard a guess that heterosexual media of this type is even MORE prevalent than the homosexual ones, so what I quoted above is pretty ridiculous.


I don't think so. Besides the heterosexual stuff tends to be aimed at a male audience. And when aimed at girls it's rather tame, or it isn't as popular.


The gayness is being used as a window to escape from the views of modern society about female/male interactions. Especially for Japanese and other countries where emancipation hasn't come as far as western society. Though even we got a long long way ahead of us.


? That's kind of.... an odd assessment. Shounen-ai means literally "boys' love". It is not, as a genre, making a political statement about gender roles in society. It's homosexual romance, end of the line. Even in the United States, you can find any kind of romance you could want, each one catering to a different demographic. You can get Dominant/Submissive novels, Historical Romance, Mystery Romance, Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Tranny Romance. It's about providing entertainment and pleasure via what are popularly called "smut books" (even my mom, a Danielle Steele enthusiast, called them that).

Shounen-ai is there to serve a purpose all right.... one that the OP summed up in her first post. "boys kissing boys are hotter than hot boys [sic]" :P


Well, I find that a rather simplistic statement to make. And I can imagine most people don't see it as more than that. But it really is more than just some low culture entertainment. Though everyone should just enjoy it in his or her own way. Be it just for some hot drawn boys kissing each other, or for recognizing the romantic and sexual fantasies so freely expressed by the female authors when freed from the current society. I for one found the reflection of my own thoughts within the literature about this phenomenon. And will not budge from this point of view. So arguing with me would be futile. But like I said everyone should decide for themselves why they like it. Even though it doesn't get the credit it deserves when one thinks it's just some hot guys kissing.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby chikara » Wed 06.25.2008 7:34 pm

Kira17 wrote:..... "Boys who kiss boys are even hotter than hot boys" ......

chikara wrote:
Sairana wrote:... I just find it a bit distressing that this particular comment was immediately pounced on and referred to the faq. ......
..... She mentioned boys kissing boys. Still not exactly erotic in my book but in many countries it would be considered such. .......

This was widely reported in international media yesterday;

Heinz mayonnaise advert with two men kissing set to become most complained of the year
Heinz Pulls Man Kiss Ad In The U.K.

Interestingly this ad was never run in the USA ;)
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby Sairana » Thu 06.26.2008 4:43 am

chikara wrote:
Kira17 wrote:..... "Boys who kiss boys are even hotter than hot boys" ......

chikara wrote:
Sairana wrote:... I just find it a bit distressing that this particular comment was immediately pounced on and referred to the faq. ......
..... She mentioned boys kissing boys. Still not exactly erotic in my book but in many countries it would be considered such. .......

This was widely reported in international media yesterday;

Heinz mayonnaise advert with two men kissing set to become most complained of the year
Heinz Pulls Man Kiss Ad In The U.K.

Interestingly this ad was never run in the USA ;)


I don't see what that has to do with what happened here. I don't deny that there are a lot of homophobes and intolerance in the world.

I don't think TJP or its members should be taking the issue to an administrative level (IE, referring the post to the site rules as though they are in violation). To do so colors TJP with a bias, yet as far as I can tell, TJP is intended to remain neutral on these topics, not being the intent of this site to discuss morality and ethics.

Kissing is 'g' rated. If we, as a community, would like to censor all 'g' rated romantic/intimate/physical discussion, fine. But if we are only going to censor homosexual 'g' rated content, it becomes political.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 06.26.2008 11:20 am

Does someone who doesn't condone homosexual behaviour have to be pegged as homophobe? The definition of a phobia is a fear of. I for one don't fear anyones sexual behavior, but I don't have to put up with it, accept it or condone it either.

I also don't see why people convolute a subject to justify it to themselves or to others.

The very nature of the series if manlove/boylove and it's definately a gay message. it's not just "hey this is sex, look beyond the two males, it's love and we should all enjoy it." It is a homoerotic cartoon that portrays homosexual behavior and all it's little kinks..

Personally I think that along with politics and religion, that sexual behavior and preference should be in the "do not discuss" areas. it's too personal to some and to others it's so offensive that it makes them wish they hadn't joined ...

That's just my two cents.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby Kakads » Thu 06.26.2008 3:40 pm

The definition of homophobia from my dictionary says:
prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality

So it isn't always about fear, it's also about the disliking of it.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 06.26.2008 4:40 pm

Kakads wrote:The definition of homophobia from my dictionary says:
prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality

So it isn't always about fear, it's also about the disliking of it.


here is teh definition of phobia..

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
pho·bi·a Audio Help /ˈfoʊbiə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[foh-bee-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

therefore, homophobia would be an irrational fear of homosexuals, their activites or situations such that one would desire to avoid it..

now. let's look up prejudice ok...

prej·u·dice Audio Help /ˈprɛdʒədɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prej-uh-dis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -diced, -dic·ing.
–noun 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
4. such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
5. damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.
–verb (used with object) 6. to affect with a prejudice, either favorable or unfavorable: His honesty and sincerity prejudiced us in his favor.
—Idiom7. without prejudice, Law. without dismissing, damaging, or otherwise affecting a legal interest or demand.


now, with those two in mind, it's pretty easy to see that homophobia is not a prejudice but rather a fear.. of course feel free to read more into it if you'd like.. you will be wrong however.

I think I am arguing your usage of prejudice and not the use of dislike and a fear or aversion can also be a dislike.

One can have a phobia due to prejudice, but one cannot be prejudiced due to a phobia. As being phobic usually means one has had an encounter with something, while being prejudiced is to form an opinion without knowledge thought or reason. Which makes me think that the word prejudiced is quite often missused by the media..
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby chikara » Thu 06.26.2008 9:48 pm

Sairana wrote:I don't see what that has to do with what happened here. ..... Kissing is 'g' rated. If we, as a community, would like to censor all 'g' rated romantic/intimate/physical discussion, fine. .....

What that has to do with what happened here is that it highlights the wider communities attitude to same sex kissing. Same sex kissing is quite obviously not seen by the wider community as G-Rated.

As my bicephalic friend has pointed out this has nothing to do with homophobia.
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Re: Anyone like Yaoi/Shounen-Ai?

Postby becki_kanou » Thu 06.26.2008 10:06 pm

I agree with sairana on this.

If we decide that the action of kissing is acceptable to be talked about on this website, then it should be acceptable no matter who's doing the kissing. If we decide that it's not acceptable, then it should also be unacceptable whoever's doing it.

And so far all the OP mentioned was kissing. If they had gone into detail about various sexual acts, I think everyone could agree that that was crossing the line, but it was a simple throwaway comment, much like I've seen many members make in other threads. Not to mention I seem to recall a thread a quite recently that went into more detail about sexual themes (promiscuity and STDs) that didn't earn any censure from anyone.
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