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translating first manga. Help!!

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translating first manga. Help!!

Postby kaien5576 » Sat 07.26.2008 2:42 pm

Ok, I am trying to translate a manga and I am in way over my head, but I refuse to give up because I think this will go really far in helping me learn the language.

I am confused though because there are so many meanings for every word and getting used to the way it is written is difficult. The kanji next to the hiragana helps because I can't read kanji, but when looking it up kanji helps with all of the synonyms in japanese.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good dictionary or program for translating? I use a firefox plug in called pepara kun and moji. anyway here is the text I am translating. I don't know how to get my program to type the correct kanji so I will clarify some of them.

中にある紙が あなたの。はじるかじり それを あなたが。 
naka ni aru kami ga -the kanji for naka here is correct, however, the kanji for kami is god not paper. So I don't get what this should mean. I guess she is saying," you have god inside of you"?

I think she may be saying that he is innocent and godlike? this is Trinity blood for those familiar and it is lady Catherine talking to her young brother the pope.
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby richvh » Sat 07.26.2008 3:20 pm

but when looking it up kanji helps with all of the synonyms in japanese.

I think you mean homonyms or homophones. Synonyms have the same meaning, not the same sound.

I don't know how to get my program to type the correct kanji so I will clarify some of them.

Assuming you're using the Windows IME to type, hit space bar to cycle through the various possible kanji.

Can you show us a scan of the frame or page so we can see if you're transcribing that right? It almost looks like you're reading the columns backwards.
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby kaien5576 » Sat 07.26.2008 5:26 pm

ok, I didn't know how to cycle through the kanji. And I probably am reading it backwards. I know the frames go right to left but how do they go in the word bubbles?

Here is the page i am translating. err attempting to translate

oh and thank you for the help, it is greatly appreciated!!!!!
Image


one other question. Witn IME how do I prevent it from changing certain parts of words into kanji?
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby richvh » Sat 07.26.2008 8:31 pm

As I thought, you're reading the columns backwards. Vertical text is always read right to left, so that bubble you were struggling with reads:
あなたがそれを恥(は)じる限(かぎ)り、あなたの中(なか)にある神(かみ)が
"To the extent that you feel ashamed of that, the god which is inside you"

(Note that the sentence isn't finished yet, it continues in the bubble to the left, and that the place where the "god which is inside you" phrase would naturally fall in the complete sentence may not be immediately after "to the extent you feel ashamed of that." I've also inserted a comma; manga text is often lacking in punctuation, aside from exclamation points, question marks and ellipses.)

As for how to keep the IME from using kanji, there are a number of ways:
1) Hit ENTER before hitting space.
2) Cycle through the choices until you reach the kana version you want.
3) Backspace to enter the edit mode at the kanji you want to be in kana. (You can use the left/right arrow keys to move the cursor to where you want to change, if you've typed in a longish phrase before hitting space.)
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby kaien5576 » Sat 07.26.2008 9:09 pm

Thank you!!

you see the bubble below the hand where the periods trail off like........

what is the kanji in the line to the right? I cannot make out the hiragana no matter how much I zoom in.
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby becki_kanou » Sat 07.26.2008 9:09 pm

If you're dead-set on translating manga, might I suggest somthing a little more down to earth for your first attempt? These genre manga have tons of genre-specific archaic vocab and very affected styles of speech that will be practically useless to the beginning learner.

The last bubble you're referring to says 『私(わたし)は楽(たの)しみに。。。』"I'm looking forward to it."
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
例え胸の傷が痛んでも。
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby richvh » Sat 07.26.2008 9:20 pm

kaien5576 wrote:Thank you!!

you see the bubble below the hand where the periods trail off like........

what is the kanji in the line to the right? I cannot make out the hiragana no matter how much I zoom in.


It's 私(わたし)は楽(たの)しみに……

I'd advise you to get a paper copy of the manga, so you can use a magnifying glass on difficult to read tiny furigana and the details of complex kanji. Unlike novels, manga tend to cram all the furigana for a kanji next to it in the height of a single character, which can make them hard to make out when there are 3 or more kana for the kanji (there can be as many as 6, though more than 4 is rare.)
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby yukamina » Sat 07.26.2008 9:35 pm

Here's something I noticed about furigana that may help you. The furigana characters are all the same size, so しょう shows up like しよう and じゅう looks like じゆう, etc. If you don't know which one is right, at least you'll know to try looking up both possibilities.

Anyway, what manga is that? The art is really nice ^_^
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby richvh » Sat 07.26.2008 9:40 pm

He said it was "Trinity Blood" in the original post.
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 07.27.2008 12:39 am

becki_kanou wrote:If you're dead-set on translating manga, might I suggest somthing a little more down to earth for your first attempt? These genre manga have tons of genre-specific archaic vocab and very affected styles of speech that will be practically useless to the beginning learner.


Even beyond the subject matter, the grammar is just too hard. Even the first sentence has two relative clauses, an honorific verb, a 2-kyuu grammar pattern (~kagiri), and so on. I think that sentence would be literally impossible for a beginner to figure out without someone breaking down the grammar of the entire sentence and explaining each part, which is a lot to ask of people, especially if your intent is to do that for every sentence.
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby AJBryant » Sun 07.27.2008 2:33 am

Plus, to be perfectly honest, if one can't recognize the kanji for "watakushi", one should probably not be doing translation just yet.


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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby Mike Cash » Sun 07.27.2008 2:51 am

kaien5576 wrote:Ok, I am trying to translate a manga and I am in way over my head, but I refuse to give up because I think this will go really far in helping me learn the language.


Unfortunately, that is a mistaken notion. What is more likely is that it will accelerate your burn-out and encourage you to drop Japanese altogether.
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby AJBryant » Sun 07.27.2008 7:13 am

Mike is probably right about that.

I've seen many people get frustrated by taking on things that were a few levels beyond their ability, and then give up.

It would be much better to follow normal learning procedures and pace oneself, and not try to eat a filet mignon when one is still, linguistically speaking, still in need of creamed corn.

There are many, many basics that you (speaking to the OP) will need to know -- not just vocab, which any dictionary can provide -- before attempting a translation. There is much grammar you will need to know, and much more in terms of how the language actually works (e.g., what direction text flows, etc.) that are really necessary.


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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby Harisenbon » Sun 07.27.2008 10:47 pm

AJBryant wrote:Plus, to be perfectly honest, if one can't recognize the kanji for "watakushi", one should probably not be doing translation just yet.


I was going to mention that if you don't know that Japanese is read from right to left when written vertically, you should probably not being doing translation yet.

To the OP,
If you're dead set on using Manga, (which at this point I would advise against) I would recommend something a lot simpler such as doraemon or sazae-san. This looks to be rather beyond your level for a starting manga.

I remember when I read my first manga (one Piece) I had already been studying for 6 years, and it still took me over a month to get through. Start out easy and you'll save yourself a lot of head-ache.
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Re: translating first manga. Help!!

Postby Mike Cash » Mon 07.28.2008 8:55 am

I've been recommending them for over a decade, and for over a decade everybody has been ignoring the recommendation, but I'll spit in the wind one more time:

Start with what are called "yon-koma" (four panel) manga. For various reasons, they're actually easier to figure out, more likely to contain stuff that will be useful in real-life, and are far less likely to contribute to burn-out born of despair. I used hundreds of them as my reading "textbooks" and then was able to progress pretty seamlessly to non-fiction and novels, and maintain throughout my personal policy of never using dictionaries or other reference materials while reading. (Big difference between reading and decoding stuff).
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