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Checkup

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Checkup

Postby hevrae » Thu 08.14.2008 3:39 pm

Ok, so I decided I'm not really keen on taking the correct path this because I tend to go straight on shortcuts and try to build up texts haha, sorry. Anyhow, I wanted to write a text about an idea I had of a more occidental hanamachi, so I came up with this:

皆さん、花町へようこそ。
少なくとも私の花町へのだ。いやはや、背景にあるその白黒の写真4枚は花町が出来る私の通訳なんだ。何としても、天(そら)が常に私の情熱の一つあった。芸者のように、人人の美さが、私に、いつでも触れてはならないものだ。花と花弁が女女しい優美さを表して、発する。
やっと、私の見地について、それがもっと西洋風の視力である花町あり、そうだな。
花の町を通行してから、世はとても楽しく見てゆくと思う。

I'd like to see if it has any errors or anything that could be corrected or enhanced or any kind of tips of course.
What I meant:
Everyone, welcome to Hanamachi.
At least to mine. Well, Those four photos in black and white in my background are my interpretation of what hanamachi can be. Anyhow, The sky has always been one of my passions. Like geishas, people's beauty is always something untouchable. Flowers and Petals reveal and emanete an effeminate elegance.Finally, about my point of view, this is a more occidental view of (what) hanamachi is, don't you think so?
After you've been through the street of flowers, you will see the world more pleseantly, I hope.


Edit: After some unwelcoming comments which I really didn't expect from this kind of forum, I decided to edit this and try to correct my english - I wrote this post very quickly so yes, it is normal I didn't have the time to remember on how all words are written in english since I was thinking both in portuguese and english -, nevertheless I'm sorry if I 'insulted' anyone's intelligence.
I erased all my comments from the text. They were mere justifications of what I wanted to write - or trying to translate - that I thought could help understanding my line of thought or something in that way.

This is, the translation subforum, therefore I ask once more if people can help me solving this question of mine. If you can't help me, then, why bother posting? I don't need random flamings, thank you.
Last edited by hevrae on Fri 08.15.2008 1:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Checkup

Postby vkladchik » Fri 08.15.2008 2:27 am

I'd like to see if it has any erros or anything that could be corrected or enhanced or any tips of course.


You can't even catch the "erros" in your English, and you want us to correct your Japanese? 甘いな。。。

My advice: go back to the kiddie pool. You're drowning in the deep end.

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Re: Checkup

Postby chikara » Fri 08.15.2008 3:07 am

Sorry but that layout is very difficult to read.

hevrae wrote:.... pleseantful ......

I realise English is not your first language. "Pleasantly" may be what you mean. :)

vkladchik wrote:You can't even catch the "erros" in your English, and you want us to correct your Japanese? ....

What's your Portuguese like sport? ;)
Last edited by chikara on Fri 08.15.2008 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Checkup

Postby Harisenbon » Fri 08.15.2008 3:20 am

chikara wrote:
vkladchik wrote:You can't even catch the "erros" in your English, and you want us to correct your Japanese? ....

What's your Portuguese like sport?


No crap. Not everyone on this board is a native English speaker. :? Lighten up ckladchik

But yeah, that formatting is really a pain to read. Hevrae, would you mind removing the formatting on that, or finding some other way to seperate the sentences? As it is, my monitor is too small to actually read any of the text.
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Re: Checkup

Postby hevrae » Fri 08.15.2008 6:52 am

chikara wrote:Sorry but that layout is very difficult to read.

hevrae wrote:.... pleseantful ......

I realise English is not your first language. "Pleasantly" may be what you mean. :)


You guess very well, I edited the thread and try to justify my point of view, this happens sometimes when your are in a hurry trying to work on three languages, or two and a quarter hehe.

Harisenbon wrote:But yeah, that formatting is really a pain to read. Hevrae, would you mind removing the formatting on that, or finding some other way to seperate the sentences? As it is, my monitor is too small to actually read any of the text.


I realized that a while ago, so I decided to edit the post and remove them, like I wrote there, they were mearly strains of thoughts that I thought could be helpful understanding some errors.

I hope now the text is more adequate for reading and translation.
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Re: Checkup

Postby Mike Cash » Fri 08.15.2008 6:58 am

vkladchik wrote:
I'd like to see if it has any erros or anything that could be corrected or enhanced or any tips of course.


You can't even catch the "erros" in your English, and you want us to correct your Japanese? 甘いな。。。

My advice: go back to the kiddie pool. You're drowning in the deep end.

/v


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Re: Checkup

Postby vkladchik » Fri 08.15.2008 10:43 am

What's your Portuguese like sport? ;)


Ironically, it's pretty good...

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Re: Checkup

Postby vkladchik » Fri 08.15.2008 11:27 am

皆さん、花町へようこそ。
少なくとも私の花町へのだ。いやはや、背景にあるその白黒の写真4枚は花町が出来る私の通訳なんだ。何としても、天(そら)が常に私の情熱の一つあった。芸者のように、人人の美さが、私に、いつでも触れてはならないものだ。花と花弁が女女しい優美さを表して、発する。
やっと、私の見地について、それがもっと西洋風の視力である花町あり、そうだな。
花の町を通行してから、世はとても楽しく見てゆくと思う。


皆さん、花町へようこそ。まぁ、少なくとも私の花町へ、ですね。さて[1]、背景に見える4枚の白黒写真は私が信じる花町の可能性を描いた「未来予想図」です[2]。空[3]は昔から私にとってインスピレーションの1つです。芸者[4]がとくにそうですが、人の美しさというものは私にとって常に触れていなければならない必要不可欠なものです[5]。 花、特に花びらは女のようなやさしい優美さを表します。最後に、私の観点はどちらかといえば、西洋的だと思いますが、皆さんもそう思いませんか。この「花の町」を通ることによって、皆さんが世の中全体をよりやさしい目で見るようになれば、それは私にとってなによりの幸せです。

[1] Are you going to be speaking this, or what?
[2] Due to the total lack of context, the phrase "what Hanamachi can be" is open to interpretation. This is mine.
[3] Unless you're trying to hint that you actually mean the Christian concept of heaven here, don't use 天 for そら.
[4] The inclusion of a geisha as an example is strange in this context (aside from being pretty hackneyed). If beauty is something you always need to be around (if I'm guessing what you're saying correctly), then are you always around geishas?
[5] The corresponding English sentence is a fragment, and the original Japanese makes no sense ("Like a geisha, people's beauty is something that must never touch me"?), so this erro is uncorrectable. Hence this wild guess.

If you're addressing people (either in a speech or in writing), especially people you don't know, use desu/masu forms. You can use the dictionary forms only if what you're writing is meant to be analytical/objective.

This is, the translation subforum, therefore I ask once more if people can help me solving this question of mine. If you can't help me, then, why bother posting? I don't need random flamings, thank you.


It's rude to ask people to correct something that you didn't even bother to proofread. English may not be your native language, but even native speakers of Portuguese can recognize that "Like geishas, people's beauty is always something Flowers and Petals reveal and emanete an effeminate elegance" has not been proofread. The "preview" button is there for a reason.

Lastly, if you think そうだな is a suitable translation for "don't you think?" (and this is only one of many head-scratchers in your text), you really need to go back and study your grammar books. My suggestion is reading the "Dictionary of Grammar" series by Seiichi Makino, starting with the basic one. (He's recently come out with an advanced one, which I wish I had had when I was studying Japanese.) When I say "read," I don't mean "refer to." I mean sit down and read them from start to finish. That's the best way to assimilate the grammar points.

/v
Last edited by vkladchik on Fri 08.15.2008 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Checkup

Postby vkladchik » Fri 08.15.2008 11:31 am

I see right now I'm going to have to move over and relinquish my status as Resident Cruel Bastard.


If it's cruel to tell people the truth, then call me Idi Amin.

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Re: Checkup

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 08.15.2008 11:34 am

vkladchik wrote:My suggestion is reading the "Dictionary of Grammar" series by Seiichi Makino, starting with the basic one. (He's recently come out with an advanced one, which I wish I had had when I was studying Japanese.) When I say "read," I don't mean "reference." I mean sit down and read them from start to finish. That's the best way to assimilate the grammar points.


In fact, that's a terrible way to learn grammar. A textbook that introduces things in an organized fashion is much better than A-Z.
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Re: Checkup

Postby vkladchik » Fri 08.15.2008 12:00 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:In fact, that's a terrible way to learn grammar. A textbook that introduces things in an organized fashion is much better than A-Z.


In fact, it's a fantastic way. It skips the BS and presents what you need to know in a single place. Most English-language textbooks (all English-language textbooks?) of Japanese spend 99% of their space trying to hide from the student the fact that he's learning a foreign language--a very, very foreign language. In order to make the process "fun," the devisers of textbooks deprive the student of all the tools he needs to learn a language, because that kind of rote stuff is "boring." For example, Japanese verbs are described as though they were English, with tenses, when in fact they have moods--perfect and imperfect, to be precise. I can see your eyes glazing over already. "What's a mood? Where did the pretty pictures go?" Terrified of losing funding-guaranteeing enrollment in their language classes, Asian Studies departments therefore pick the textbooks with the pretty pictures, and when a student is confronted with a sentence like 私が家に帰ったときに晩ご飯ができているように準備してください in which there is no "past tense" at all, the teachers are forced to engage in a lot of hand-waving, giving misleading explanations like "sometimes the Japanese use the past tense to mean the future" (direct quote from one of my profs).

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Re: Checkup

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 08.15.2008 12:11 pm

vkladchik wrote:I can see your eyes glazing over already. "What's a mood? Where did the pretty pictures go?"


Yeah, that's me -- I'm not much for detailed grammar explanations.

But you need some overall structure and reinforcement; you can't just read a grammar book and expect to internalize everything.
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Re: Checkup

Postby coco » Fri 08.15.2008 12:35 pm

vkladchik wrote:[4] The inclusion of a geisha as an example is strange in this context (aside from being pretty hackneyed). If beauty is something you always need to be around (if I'm guessing what you're saying correctly), then are you always around geishas?


「はなまち(花街)」は花柳界を指す言葉ですから、白黒の写真4枚が芸者・舞妓を含む町並み(たとえば先斗町)を写したものかと私は想像しましたけど、違うかもしれません。 :mrgreen:
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Re: Checkup

Postby AJBryant » Fri 08.15.2008 12:38 pm

vkladchik wrote:
I see right now I'm going to have to move over and relinquish my status as Resident Cruel Bastard.


If it's cruel to tell people the truth, then call me Idi Amin.

/v


It's extremely UN helpful that way.

Either lighten up and play nice, or find another kiddie pool.
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Re: Checkup

Postby vkladchik » Fri 08.15.2008 1:03 pm

coco wrote: 「はなまち(花街)」は花柳界を指す言葉ですから、白黒の写真4枚が芸者・舞妓を含む町並み(たとえば先斗町)を写したものかと私は想像しましたけど、違うかもしれません。 :mrgreen:


あ、なるほど。ありえますね。しかし投稿者が「花町」と書いていたことや実際の「花」についてコメントしていたことなどから、住んでいる場所の写真を紹介するスピーチかなと思ったんです。なにせ、全体的に状況を把握させる手がかりが少ない文章ですから、投稿者が教えてくれない限り、想像は想像で終わってしまいます。
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