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In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

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In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby hommie93710 » Sun 08.17.2008 12:51 am

Please, help me learn japanese, anyone. I've always watched manga animataion on the computer and tried to understand. I think it's just way to advanced cause they talk so fast i can barely understand them. Just to let you know i'm a beginner, so please bare with me but i hope someone is willing to help me on my journey of Enlightenment to explore such a beautiful language .
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby clay » Sun 08.17.2008 1:17 am

Even if you want to concentrate just on spoken Japanese, I highly recommend learning hiragana first. It will not only give you the basics for reading Japanese, but it will also help you understand how the sounds of Japanese are made up.
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/beginners/hiragana

Also getting a good textbook will be your best bet. Then when you have questions, please post them here or try out the chat (http://www.thejapanesepage.com/node/797)
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby Sairana » Sun 08.17.2008 1:22 am

Welcome to TJP!

I do wish you the best of luck on your adventure. I'd like to give you fair warning that you're quite unlikely to find someone willing to be your personal tutor in the language. However, we're more than happy to help you get started along the right track.

You might wish to start by learning hiragana and katakana. It takes a fair bit of dedication, but it can be done relatively quickly. With the syllabaries out of the way, you can begin to concentrate on more tangible things.

A textbook is the perfect way to start off learning a language, especially if you're doing self-study, and don't have access to a classroom setting. If you can't manage a textbook right now, you might enjoy the lessons at Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese. His lessons are concise and enjoyable.

When you have questions regarding something you learn in your text or from Tae Kim's site, you are quite welcome to ask for clarifications and expansions here. Tae Kim has his own forum as well, so you can ask there, too, or in both places for varied perspectives.

Reading the articles here on TJP and watching Clay's videos would be a great way to get more into the culture of the language, as well as hearing things spoken slowly enough for a beginner.

I hope this is a decent push for your first foray into the language. Good luck!
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby hommie93710 » Sun 08.17.2008 2:06 am

OH wow thanks so much i was looking into learning hiragana first, funny that you posted that. Also I found a group on here that gives me so much info on hiragana http://learn.majik4ever.com/. It had a link and i pressed it and it took me there so if you have time let me know if it's a good site i'm new at this so i dont know if it is or not. But if it is i will continue to learn there. I still dont understand why those vowels AIUEO you know how it shows AA AI AU AE AO and BA BI BU BE BO right or am i just confused beyond belief. Why does this place http://learn.majik4ever.com/JapaneseLesson.pdf show a chart of hiragana starting with K, G, S, E, and so on why not A, B, C to make it easier did i give you headache cause i know i gave myself one lol
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby ニッキー » Sun 08.17.2008 2:53 am

hommie93710 wrote:OH wow thanks so much i was looking into learning hiragana first, funny that you posted that. Also I found a group on here that gives me so much info on hiragana http://learn.majik4ever.com/. It had a link and i pressed it and it took me there so if you have time let me know if it's a good site i'm new at this so i dont know if it is or not. But if it is i will continue to learn there. I still dont understand why those vowels AIUEO you know how it shows AA AI AU AE AO and BA BI BU BE BO right or am i just confused beyond belief.


I don't understand what you're trying to say there. :(

Why does this place http://learn.majik4ever.com/JapaneseLesson.pdf show a chart of hiragana starting with K, G, S, E, and so on why not A, B, C to make it easier did i give you headache cause i know i gave myself one lol


That's the Japanese order of the letters.
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby hommie93710 » Sun 08.17.2008 3:24 am

sorry about that Ok so you say thats the japanese order of the letters i get that now i dont understand how they get that to lets say change the english name ANDREW to japanese do they seperate it like AN-DR-EW or am i lost again lol
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby Sairana » Sun 08.17.2008 4:53 am

hommie93710 wrote:sorry about that Ok so you say thats the japanese order of the letters i get that now i dont understand how they get that to lets say change the english name ANDREW to japanese do they seperate it like AN-DR-EW or am i lost again lol


Japanese sounds are divided up differently than they are in English. They won't sound the same at all.

Japanese has five vowel sounds, a, i, u, e, o. I'd advise you to listen to the audio here at TJP to hear how they sound. Unlike in English, they can only be pronounced ONE way.

After the vowels, a consonant is always paired with a vowel, except for N. Only N can stand by itself with no vowel after it.

So the chart reads a, i, u, e, o in the first column. Then ka, ki, ku, ke, ko, and so on.

The first step toward learning a new language is to try and approach it openly, and try not to associate it too closely with English. It's easier said than done, but ever so important.
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby hommie93710 » Sun 08.17.2008 4:42 pm

wouldn't you need to know japanese words before learning Hiragana because i wouldnt even know how to form a word in japanese with those letters


ok like this when your learning english you see a red color (or lets say a red ball) and you parents teach you to say thats red and then after you learn that, that bright color is red you soon learn that red is spelled red after you know the word red hope your following me


now my question is wouldnt it be easier to learn words first before you start learning Hiragana?

I have tried to rephrase it so many time to get you to understand what i mean so hopefully you do.
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby Dustin » Sun 08.17.2008 5:24 pm

Alright, no it is NOT better to learn words before Hiragana according to most people, including myself.

When you learn Hiragana, you will understand how each Japanese kana actually SOUNDS, without knowing the proper sounds, you cannot properly learn the words that are made up of these sounds.
You will not only learn the proper sounds, but how the language works, every letter is an a, i, u, e, o sound, either by itself, or following what we would recognize as a constanant.

Andrew for example will translate as A-n-do-ryuu with the Japanese syllabary.
If you start to learn "words" before understanding the phonetic system, then you will develop very bad habits early.
My name, Dustin translates as Da-su-ti-n

Of course these will both make a little more sense written in katakana, one of the syllabaries, where the actual phonetics are more obvious.

As a child you try to comprehend what red IS before worrying about getting the phonetics just right, but since you already know trivial items like that, you can learn these words much more quickly with the correct pronounciation.

The great thing about Japanese is that Hiragana is a phonetic system, not an alphabet. Therefor a word sounds EXACTLY how it is spelt using the kana. If you can't spell the word, you can't SAY the word. There is a reason that we are saying to learn hiragana and katakana first, because it is the "phonetic system" without which you are in for a lot more work than you need to be.
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 08.17.2008 6:10 pm

hommie93710 wrote:now my question is wouldnt it be easier to learn words first before you start learning Hiragana?


Yes, I think so. If you feel like your hiragana efforts would be easier if you knew some Japanese, go ahead and learn a bit of grammar and vocab using romaji. It won't hurt your long term studies, and it can make it much easier to learn the hiragana. This was true for me. Learning vocab/grammar using listening materials can get you acquainted with the sounds of Japanese before you tackle the writing system.

There's a myth that hiragana helps you with the sounds of Japanese, but what helps you figure out sounds of Japanese is listening to Japanese audio, not looking at any kind of symbol.
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby hommie93710 » Sun 08.17.2008 6:11 pm

[quote="Dustin"]
Andrew for example will translate as A-n-do-ryuu with the Japanese syllabary.
quote]


like in that section how did you know thats the way to translate andrew?
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby Dustin » Sun 08.17.2008 6:21 pm

It's because I have learnt the Japanese syllabary,, and used it quite a bit making it easy to get the closest Phonetic sound to Most names. There is always a little bit of wiggle room such as maybe using アンドルウ instead of アンドリュウ。

It's all about learning the kana, then you know the phonetic system, that's it.

Japanese even take words from English and they have to use their own phonetis system to say them so a word like T.V. will be pronounced te-re-bi, radio, ra-ji-o, stereo, su-te-re-o

Once you have learnt the kana, then start learning vocab, you will know how to pronounce them and after time it will become second nature.
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby hommie93710 » Sun 08.17.2008 6:27 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
hommie93710 wrote:now my question is wouldnt it be easier to learn words first before you start learning Hiragana?


Yes, I think so. If you feel like your hiragana efforts would be easier if you knew some Japanese, go ahead and learn a bit of grammar and vocab using romaji. It won't hurt your long term studies, and it can make it much easier to learn the hiragana. This was true for me. Learning vocab/grammar using listening materials can get you acquainted with the sounds of Japanese before you tackle the writing system.

There's a myth that hiragana helps you with the sounds of Japanese, but what helps you figure out sounds of Japanese is listening to Japanese audio, not looking at any kind of symbol.


Thats what i've been using right now the podcasts to learn the letters and words not just trying to read them you know since like that other guy said before i know the sounds to read them but it's just all confusing i'm mainly confused about the after learning the hiragana then what do you do? make words out of the symbols like how would i know what to write if i dont know how to spell any japanese words. How do i put them together to make words.

Everyones probably like what the hell is she talking about lol. To tell you the truth i'm not sure either i'm just thinking that it's freakin complicated
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby hommie93710 » Sun 08.17.2008 6:36 pm

Dustin_Calgary wrote:It's because I have learnt the Japanese syllabary,, and used it quite a bit making it easy to get the closest Phonetic sound to Most names. There is always a little bit of wiggle room such as maybe using アンドルウ instead of アンドリュウ。

It's all about learning the kana, then you know the phonetic system, that's it.

Japanese even take words from English and they have to use their own phonetis system to say them so a word like T.V. will be pronounced te-re-bi, radio, ra-ji-o, stereo, su-te-re-o

Once you have learnt the kana, then start learning vocab, you will know how to pronounce them and after time it will become second nature.



Ok i see what your saying but how do you get that vocabulary to stick i've learned common phrases since i can use it not as much as i want but enough. It's getting easier but stuff like blue or red or colors or foot stuff like that where i wont use everyday and i'll probably forget. i will more then likely forget them. Theres so many do you know them all? How long did it take you now i'm not trying to rush anything you know but i feel like my brain is gonna explode lol
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Re: In need of help from experienced Japanese speaker

Postby Dustin » Sun 08.17.2008 7:10 pm

I do lots and lots of flashcards.
Every time I get a flashcard wrong, I put it in a pile for review.
Keep going back to previously learnt words, even after you are sure they are solid, it won't take long to run through them.
The more practice you can get speaking, writing, the better. Do whatever you can to add vocab that you don't have down as well into your conversations. That is really the best way to memorize it, is by using it.
Even with flashcards, if you only have individual words, full sentences will take forever.

Try keeping a journal in Japanese, writing in it every day, and find a more experienced Japanese speaker to practice speaking with, which may be tough, usually it is best if you can do language exchaange, you help with their english in exchange for them helping you with your Japanese.

A good textbook will also help to add onto your vocabulary, reviewing vocab previously learnt, add all these up, and you'll do fine as long as you're willing to put in the work.
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