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Help me meet Andy Roddick!

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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 08.22.2008 4:15 pm

Only in the sense that they are both derived from the Japanese saying.

I picked the username a while ago for a different forum; for some reason I can't recall I needed a username that was not my real name and I picked this one at random. It has no special significance of any kind for me.
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Denus » Fri 08.22.2008 6:12 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:There was a recent incident in Australia where some education reform suggestion had glaring mistakes like calling "set of" in "set of bowls" an adjective, "capable of" in "capable of doing" an adverb, and other things like that.


It makes me sad that I'm not sure what to call those patterns... I think I learned the first one in school as "group nouns", but I don't know what to call the latter construction at all.
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 08.22.2008 6:34 pm

Denus wrote:
Yudan Taiteki wrote:There was a recent incident in Australia where some education reform suggestion had glaring mistakes like calling "set of" in "set of bowls" an adjective, "capable of" in "capable of doing" an adverb, and other things like that.


It makes me sad that I'm not sure what to call those patterns... I think I learned the first one in school as "group nouns", but I don't know what to call the latter construction at all.


"set" is a noun and "capable" is an adjective. "of" is a preposition and both the examples there are prepositional phrases.
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Denus » Fri 08.22.2008 7:16 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
Denus wrote:
Yudan Taiteki wrote:There was a recent incident in Australia where some education reform suggestion had glaring mistakes like calling "set of" in "set of bowls" an adjective, "capable of" in "capable of doing" an adverb, and other things like that.


It makes me sad that I'm not sure what to call those patterns... I think I learned the first one in school as "group nouns", but I don't know what to call the latter construction at all.


"set" is a noun and "capable" is an adjective. "of" is a preposition and both the examples there are prepositional phrases.


Ah, OK. I know "capable" is an adjective. Come to think of it, though, prepositions where always taught to me as a "location" type of word group ("on the table" "in the house"). I never would've thought of "of" as a preposition.
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Harisenbon » Fri 08.22.2008 8:55 pm

My friend in high school walked by one of the standard (as opposed to honors) english classes and overheard the following, from the English teacher.

"Romeo , O Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo"
"Well Juliet, He's just in the garden below you!"
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby richvh » Fri 08.22.2008 9:34 pm

That was the English teacher saying that? I know it's archaic, but somewhere along the line that teacher should have learned that "wherefore" means "why."
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Denus » Sat 08.23.2008 12:03 am

richvh wrote:That was the English teacher saying that? I know it's archaic, but somewhere along the line that teacher should have learned that "wherefore" means "why."


The trick for that I've been taught is to compare wherefore and therefore.
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby AJBryant » Sat 08.23.2008 12:38 am

Denus wrote:
richvh wrote:That was the English teacher saying that? I know it's archaic, but somewhere along the line that teacher should have learned that "wherefore" means "why."


The trick for that I've been taught is to compare wherefore and therefore.


Or the old "never mind the whys and wherefores" -- there's a REASON they're grouped together.


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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby clay » Sat 08.23.2008 9:08 am

Or the old "never mind the whys and wherefores" -- there's a REASON they're grouped together.


That's good. :)

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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby AJBryant » Sat 08.23.2008 12:57 pm

What can I say...

We give good thread drift. ;)


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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby chikara » Sun 08.24.2008 6:59 am

Yudan Taiteki wrote:...... There was a recent incident in Australia where some education reform suggestion had glaring mistakes like calling "set of" in "set of bowls" an adjective, "capable of" in "capable of doing" an adverb, and other things like that.

It wasn't an education reform suggestion but a grammar guide, Grammar guide for English teachers 'full of basic errors' :oops:

Dang Queenslanders :roll:

I've been watching some of the Olympics coverage and we now have a new verb, "medal" as in "he medaled in the 100m freestyle" or "She should medal in the 400m individual medley".

I wish sports commentators wouldn't meddle with the language.
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 08.24.2008 9:19 am

chikara wrote:I've been watching some of the Olympics coverage and we now have a new verb, "medal" as in "he medaled in the 100m freestyle" or "She should medal in the 400m individual medley".


OED has 1966 as their first cite for the intransitive verb (1820 for the transitive).
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby furrykef » Sun 08.24.2008 10:19 am

Yudan Taiteki wrote:but people refuse to even acknowledge that linguistics is important to know, which I do not understand -- it's taken as a given that everyone should learn some math and science, even if they are not going to be mathematicians or scientists. But even though everyone uses language constantly, every day, even the basics of linguistics are either not taught in schools or taught incorrectly.


Well, it could be argued that many people get along fine without being taught linguistics, including people such as professional writers. Being able to diagram a sentence is admittedly of limited use to learn how to speak and write better. I can diagram a sentence very easily now, but I think it has little to do with any improvement in my writing.

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Even linguistic keywords/jargon like "bound variable" and "determiner" shouldn't be that hard because all native speakers of English know what these things are, they just don't know the terms for them, and may not be consciously aware of their existence.


I think students already understanding the underlying concepts is actually what the problem is. People don't feel inclined to learn about grammar because they already know it. Although I grasp English grammar terminology very easily now, I definitely remember the time when words and phrases like "appositive", "dependent clause", "nominative case", "subjunctive mood", etc. would send me running for the hills. Now I wonder what the big deal was. I think the only thing that changed was that I started caring.

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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 08.24.2008 10:44 am

furrykef wrote:
Yudan Taiteki wrote:but people refuse to even acknowledge that linguistics is important to know, which I do not understand -- it's taken as a given that everyone should learn some math and science, even if they are not going to be mathematicians or scientists. But even though everyone uses language constantly, every day, even the basics of linguistics are either not taught in schools or taught incorrectly.


Well, it could be argued that many people get along fine without being taught linguistics, including people such as professional writers.


Ignorance of linguistics is at the heart of a lot of the absurd claims made about English; that you can't end sentences with prepositions, can't split infinitives, can't use possessives as antecedents to pronouns because they're "adjectives", etc. Usage guides are full of nonsense because even usage writers don't think they need to understand grammar to write a guide. People think it's fine to stigmatize dialects for being "inferior" because they've never been taught that they're not.

I'm speaking from experience teaching Japanese grammar to students when I say that ignorance of basic grammatical concepts is a hindrance to learning grammar in a foreign language, and many books essentially avoid grammar teaching as much as possible.

Being able to diagram a sentence is admittedly of limited use to learn how to speak and write better.


I don't think that's true at all, especially for people whose native dialect is not standard English.

Issues of overcorrection are direct results of people trying to apply usage rules when they don't understand the underlying grammar of what they are writing.
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Re: Help me meet Andy Roddick!

Postby kgb4life » Sun 08.24.2008 11:22 am

you guys! this post was supposed to be about you guys voting for my video so i can meet andy roddick! not english class!
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